@Pat-MA haha I think you will not miss drinking very much

@ThisIsChris Haha, I have been cutting down a lot. That mainly applies to her because we get into arguments when she drinks

@Pat-MA Things don't have to be perfect all the time, at those times I suggest thinking of times she puts up with or does things for you

Thanks man. True stuff

@Pat-MA Pleasure to put in my two cents

Only advice I'll probably ever give here, take it or leave it... It's cliché, but: when you meet the one that truly makes you want to be a better man, don't let her go. You'll feel it. It won't feel like she's out of your league. You'll just want to be the best you can be for her because she deserves it. That's the one.

tfw u had that but were too young and stupid to realize it

Why what happened with your relationship?

Living together before marriage is not trad.

I never understood what's wrong with just living together

Isn't sex before marriage supposed to be the degenerate part?

Unfortunately in the world we live in it is easier to cohabitate in many cases. As for the sex before marraige, it is difficult to get married in your early 20s due to financial reasons/ finding a woman who is mature enough

Both living together and having sex outside of marriage are disastrous for relationships.
Living together causes scandal. It let's other couples know that cohabitation is appropriate. Not only that, but it is a slight to any good woman's reputation.

False

Not in todays world

I have to agree. In a time before such rampant degeneracy was the norm, it would go without saying that living together before marriage would be a bad move. Unfortunately, because so many people engage in antisocial behaviour, I would think it would be advisable to spend at least a year together under the same roof before you get married. Maybe move in together after your engagement, but I don't think it's wise to never cohabitate before it's too late. Living together gives you an opportunity to see what someone is really like. Unfortunately, you really can do that, unless you spend most of your free time together

How can you advance a relationship if marraige is not possible at the moment?

Unfortunately getting married is not as easy as it used to be

@John O - Just because something is the norm does not make it moral.

@SamanthaM that's not the point I was making. I was making the point that in order to find out if someone is really who they say they are, you have to spend a majority of your free time with them, and that is really only possible if you live together

And with the high divorce rate it is good to be 100% sure you can sustain a marraige.

I have heard people say living together makes you more likely to break up, but I think those people went in with the wrong intentions

For example you don't move in together to only save money

@John O - That I'd agree with. Everything is fine up to the point of cohabitation.

That's what I'm saying, though. I, and many other young people like me spend well beyond 40 hours at work every week. I don't have time every day to spend with people who don't live in my house. Before I marry a woman, I want a trial period of at least a year under the same roof so that I can get to know them as well as possible. Spending two or three days together a week isn't nearly enough.

Please excuse the typos, I'm using voice to text

I'm gonna have to agree with John on this one

I don't see how it's immoral per say

I absolutely see how it's immoral, however, it's an unfortunate reality of the times we live in

Yeah the cost of a wedding and then buying a house combined is insane

Huh?

Weddings don't have to be expensive. Lots of fantastic ways to save.

At least where I live if you want a good wedding its probably at least 15k, then if you want a house in a good town/neighborhood its at least 300k

My parents got married in a park for next to nothing

yeah how do we avoid the wedding ((()))

Everyone has their own preference, but I would like my friends and family to be there.

@SamanthaM again, I just want to stress that you are correct, cohabitating is immoral, I just don't see a way around it

Major cost is the reception. Holding it at someone's home is a great way to save on that expense.

Pretty sure the wedding is expensive as *you* make it

unless you need a church or what not for religious stuffs

@John O - It's tough. Sin in the modern world is almost unavoidable.

Im glad ive found people who agree that living together isnt wholesome

redpill me on how it's a sin

I need to start going to Church again

@Deleted User because it leads to premarital sex

Some couples who live together are basically married but without the formality

*most

eh, I guess I can see that

Putting yourself in situations where someone you love is sleeping right next to you = premarital sex

Which is avoidable

I don't know, man, if I'm living with a girl, I'm not going to pull the fifties married couple different bed shit

that was only in movies

if youre married, I think youre allowed to

I know. I was just pointing out an example

Ignoring the religious aspect, this article points out some detrimental statistics concerning cohabitation. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mylordandmyblog.wordpress.com/2009/02/24/seven-reasons-why-living-together-before-marriage-is-not-a-good-idea/amp/

ok thanks

@SamanthaM All of the things he mentions are correlations but I see no proof that living together causes those problems. People who live together do so for many reasons. Some have a more liberal attitude regarding relationships and are therefore more likely to divorce. But that doesn't mean living together causes divorce. Or any of the other problems like violence or alcohol problems.

It's not necessarily *living together.* It's *living together before marriage.* Marriage is a a responsibility, like anything else. What the results are pointing to is that people who do not take this responsibility seriously are more likely to be irresponsible in other matters.

I was also thinking that people on the lower rungs of society are more likely to cohabitate for economic reasons

so just by shear numbers of the type of people who cohabitate first can add to those numbers

if that made sense

I agree with the general perception that, if a woman lives together with a man, doesn't marry him and then tries to continue dating she is seen as sullied, in the trad worldview at least.

@SamanthaM Exactly. That's correlation, not causality. If a responsible couple decides to live together without being married for whatever reason, they won't become more likely to have negative consequences just for that reason. The same as just because irresponsible couple gets married, doesn't mean they will stop drinking or being irresponsible.

One piece of advice gentlemen. If you break up with a girl, make her a complete stranger. No contact. Delete on line photos immediately. Delete her contact information and look forward completely. In addition once you get serious with a woman, drop all female friends. Don’t ever allow yourself to be in a room alone with another woman, even at work if you can.

^^^^

What would have happened to the couples who struggled with such problems that the article mentions if they got married and then lived together?

you have to work them out because you have a preexisting bilateral commitment to do so

I wonder why the mod had to issue that announcement. Was there a problem in the chat?

@Deleted User I learned that lesson the hard way.

@Rick there was an article about "female hypergamy" posted that I removed. I made the announcement to make sure everyone is on the same page that we are here to help IE members and not to lament the status (accurately or not) of dating today.

@ThisIsChris ha. ok. I thought it be something like that.

If there is one piece of advice that I can offer my fellow goyim it is to never marry a girl for whom you have to compromise on your principles for. That will never work. Take it from someone who is redpilled and married to someone who isn't. It's rough. It's almost as bad has having different religions.

I got so incredibly lucky. I sat down with my now fiance about the JQ and race realism and all of it and she agreed with me

@Patient Zero What lesson did you learn?

To forget a girl when she ghosts you.

Never go back.

If it didn't work the first time, their is a reason for that.

I was especially vulnerable because I am far too trusting and hate being single.

It's understandable. do you think you would ever make that mistake again or have you outgrown that?

Well, I'm getting married in June, so hopefully I wont have to be in that situation again

But I think I outgrew the negative side of that for the most part.

Bros I hate to disagree but as a man being red pilled you absolutely do not have to have a woman whom is. While my wife is smart enough to see most of the bs going on in society today she doesn't involve her self with it. My wife is a total normie and that is perfectly fine. She is concerned with our kids and our house. She has no reason to be politically involved and that is perfectly fine. She knows my opinions and agrees with me but she doesn't have even the slightest itch to be concerned with this stuff. We have been married for 12 years and together for 15.

Perhaps I should clarify. My Fiance is apolitical. She happily agrees with my points and cares about other things. I very much enjoy it this way.

^ sounds good.
As long as she shares your morales and values that's what means the most.

Completely agree

I find most woman are that way unless they get pushed into it.

My wife is pretty apolitical. She definitely leans towards disagreement with me, but she is mostly indifferent.

But that indifference bothers me. It might be what others want, but it bothers me.

I get that, but back when women were women and men were men, it wasn't a problem.

Perhaps.

@Patient Zero I’ve made the mistake too, and I’ve watched several of my friends doing the same thing. That’s why I always stress that protocol now.

@JesseJames my wife is not red pilled either but she stays at home and takes care of our four kids, which was my top priority. Having a family unit is more important to me than having a red pilled wife. She doesn’t even think about politics anyways and votes republican because I tell her to.

Isn't that just a better system in general?

I'm so glad I found that. I know a lot of the younger guys in this movement are having a lot of trouble finding a girl who can at least be unbrainwashed or isn't and ideologue.

@Patient Zero once you have kids most women focus on that and the politics and philosophy no longer matter to them. They just need to fill their time up with child rearing to get their head right.

Tis a gift. One I respect.

@Deleted User you and I are on the same level my friend.

@JesseJames cheers to that sir. We’re on to something.

@Rick when you say compromise your principals, are you taking about any specific principals? Or morals and values in general

@Pat-MA I guess I compromised all around. I was not as selective as I should have been. My standards were too low. I settled. I have learned that you are better off being alone than with someone you aren't compatible with or head over heels in love with. It makes you feel trapped. No matter how anguishing loneliness is, being stuck in a relationship with someone you aren't happy with is worse. Curing loneliness is much easier than getting out of a bad relationship.

^^^ literally my situation for the past 5 years

Just ended it yesterday

I feel liberated

Glad to hear that. Not sure how to tag you.

Yeah, fix your name Pinoche Ball @𝖕 𝖎 𝖓 𝖔 𝖈 𝖍 𝖊 𝖙 𝖇 𝖆 𝖑 𝖑#2036

And how do you know if you should stay or leave?

@Pinochetball ^^^

Cant the mods fix my name independently in each server? If i change it doesnt it change it in every server?

It can't be read on phones because of the font

Im on a phone lol

all we see is boxes with questionmarks in them

Ill change it

Thats lame af

My phone displays it fine. Man... ghey

K gimme a min

Better?

No change?

Legible

Cool

Why has nobody else told me lmao

Its been like that for like two weeks 😂

@Pinochetball I think @Rick alluded to it

he wasn't sure how to tag you

probably whoever let you in the server has the same phone as you

Well in all the other servers im in nobody said anything other than "hey did you change your name?"

Oh well

@Pat-MA how do you know if you should leave? Ask yourself if you want to have kids with her. If not, bail.

@Pat-MA basically this. If you've been together so many years you have to figure out what you want for both of your sakes, and as @Deleted User said the natural objective of a relationship is the family

Good takes, goys.

Gf can’t understand why I don’t like it when she drinks and smokes marijuana. I have no problem if she has a drink or two at brunch, mostly the smoking I don’t like. When I give her a hard time she thinks I am trying to change who she is. Anyone else ever deal with this?

Yeah, I don't have a moral problem with weed per say, but habitual use does make you retarded. Smoking in general is unhygienic, a big turn off when females do it.

Maybe I’m being too rigid...

She has toned it down a lot since meeting me

I wouldn't say you are trying to change who she is, smoking is a superficial thing, and superficial things aren't part of a person's core attributes.

Exactly. She doesn’t want to hear it though

Idk man, if she seems to make an effort about toning it down for you that's good though.

I used to date some people who smoked weed. I know people who smoke once a month and some once a day. One of the most degenerate things I have ever heard was my buddy in college would smoke with his mom and his dad would buy drugs off his friends. I'm not saying that is where things are headed, but the older you get, the less it should be used and there should be a drop off point

Fortunately, that is the direction its going

Weed culture is arguably worse than weed itself

^This

I remember my one experience with pot pretty vividly, I tried and immediately felt pity for the people that had to fuck themselves up this much every day just to cope with reality.

For sure, every transaction is a brush with the law. Not something you would want in a waifu.

Maybe you could try just slowly transitioning her away from it by telling her about the toxicity of the culture

Most people who smoke know it's bad for them and know it's not good culturally. Unless they're major shitlibs who watch AJ+ regularly and think the word marijuana has racial connotations, lmao. I believe that you should keep a record how many times she smokes in a month or two and then you have a proper baseline. See if she can reduce it further and you'll do something for her. Don't make it about how you feel about it culturally. Make it about her health.

@Virgil i think i am doing that at least unconciously a bit. She had a tough home situation growing up- divorced parents, didnt feel loved by her mom, and definitely uses it to cope whether she knows it or not.

Ok yeah I’ll stress her health. But she still says well I can do what I want! Like a little girl

You ever think maybe there's too many red flags you're overlooking?

Maybe you could try introducing her to a new hobby or activity that could help her cope. Like biking, cooking, mma or something to that effect.

Its tough to get her into something new as she is a stubborn irish girl haha. And @TV i did notice some red flags, but I believe the positives greatly outweigh those. And she did have a difficult family situation, so if we were to have a daughter I would not let that happen, and I don’t believe she would either

Marijuana is gay

We have fun, works a ton and very hard, enjoy each others company, takes care of me and vice versa

You need to patrol her

Shes honest truthful and punctual

What do you mean stephanie

Do you wanna marry her and have her be the mother of your kids??

Yeah as long as she doesn’t smoke

Be in charge of her.. if you want her to quit make her quit lol

Have you ever dealt with the stubborn irish?

Maybe tell her you intend to marry her and have her be the mother of your children and you can’t have her smoke if that’s the case

Ok

Yes my bf @Whitelash is a stubborn nibba but I got him to stop smoking by nagging

Nice

Alright then

Yessss ^

Ultimately, you are in charge

is she the type of woman to accept that?

Or is she a feminist

if she knows you’re in charge then it’s easy

^

Shes not a feminist haha but she does not like being told what to do. But neither do I

No one likes being told what to do

but still she needs to know her place

True

Girls will argue all the time, but if they value you they'll cooperate

If she’s been smoking habitually then she isn’t gonna stop easily so even if she agrees to stop it’s gonna be a challenge

If you tell her to stop and she’s goes on a feminist rant saying you can’t tell her what to do then you have a big problemo

Maybe it would be good to tell her that you care about her and that’s why you need her to stop

Because you want a future with her

Ok...

Yeah she always argues when i bring it up but she has been slowing down throughout the relationship

Argues how?

Does she downplay it that it’s not a big deal?

Honestly just tell her she’s being a degenerate

be nice about it tho

Yeah she doesnt think theres anything wrong with it

that’s an issue then

But it was the life she grew up with

does she think she can be a proper mother and wife by abusing substances ?

Does she prioritize marriage and motherhood?

Well if i bring that up she says she wont do it if we had kids

start there and everything else will come into place

We all have to outgrow childish things.

Yeah I just want her to outgrow it

How old she is?

26

Oh

Wtfffff

lol

Nope

like I’m 20 and I never did any of that stuff and I’ve always been geared towards marriage and motherhood

I mean I guess everyone is different

Did you grow up in a stable household

You need to get her to grow up lol

Me? Ehhh kinda but not really

I wasn’t instilled with these ideals

Her mom kicked her out of the house when she was 16 so that doesnt help

Had to go live w her dad

That’s rough but hopefully those situations make you stronger and make you want to be better for your future family

that’s my opinion tho

Agreed ^

I’m tryna have 15 kids by 26

Nice

If you show yourself as a strong enough role model with your clean living then she will see how dumb she is being by contrast.

Hopefully

Thats what I’m trying

Lots of people do not grow up in this world we live in. I see it in a lot of my friends too. Im 27

Like all druggies fundamentally are trying to cope with something. If you can show her that she doesn't have to cope with the situation she used to be in then she doesn't have to smoke anymore.

Yeah Ive known that

do you really love her?

or are you just with her because you’ve been with her for so long?

I do love her

okay then you gotta put your foot down and let her know your standards and expectations for her behavior

and make it known you want a future with her

Sounds good

@Pat-MA how long have you two been together?

@Pat-MA Is she redpilled on race, the jq, etc? Is she on board with IE?

@ThisIsChris 3 years and change. @Rick she knows my views and is cool with it but doesnt get into that stuff. But she did make fun of all the Trump protestors after the election calling them babies, hahah

@Pat-MA I see. Pretend you have never dated her and she was being described to you by a friend with the details you are sharing, would you be interested in her?

No, but I am not mentioning all the good things.

And I also do not believe that there is a such thing as a perfect person for anyone. There will be challenges and things to overcome no matter who you are

^this tbh

@Pat-MA I agree. I think "staying together" vs "not staying together" is not really the question now. I'm going to go with the assumption you will stay together and then I would advise that you work with that. The reason her smoking pot bothers you is because you care about her well-being. People usually do that to help deal with their emotions. I suggest looking into mindfulness. There's a great app called Headspace I recommend as an introduction. Maybe you two could do it together. It's very powerful to get control of your mind.

@Anthony Sealy - MO
> When you meet the one that truly makes you want to be a better man, don't let her go. You'll feel it. It won't feel like she's out of your league. You'll just want to be the best you can be for her because she deserves it. That's the one.

I'll forever remember this quote.

I know you said you'll likely not provide other advice, but I like this one so much, I encourage you to share more.

I'm not sure if this is a thing or not but I noticed growing up boys were not really encouraged to trust their gut or intuition the same way girls were. I never really started using intuition until after college but once i did i started making better decisions. moral of the story is trust your gut and you will find the answer

Cool stuff, @ThisIsChris , that is something new

@Pat-MA it's really life changing for someone who struggles to get along in life

Ok gonna finally chime in here. Stick with the mindfulness that is good,also trust your gut intuition, it doesn't lie to you,its there for a reason.

As for the smoking pot,i think for most like myself,its something you hopefully grow out of as i did the older i got saw the people i was around and how they were going nowhere,also didn't want chances of getting caught by cops,i did this in teens,by late 19 I was cleaning out of system & dropped and dropped it all,cleaned self up,didn't want to associate with that crowd.

As to the mindfulness, you have to get it in the right strong frame of mind to do so & make that move to quit for good.

As to the living with someone before marriage, i think that's most realistic, what we did & also what our kids have done to make sure that person is right to live with,to see habits, see if you can handle,etc.

Now i say this as to my life experiences..

I met hubby when i was 20,during Halloween at good friends house. We got engaged by December and started to move in together by then too. In January i turned 21, & there is a 14yr age difference between us,he was 35. Also i saw that he was a good provider or could be again as he was going through divorce with 2 small stepchildren I also took on. But knew he was a good man,good catch & we could grow together. We got married May 28th,which is now almost 24yrs later.

Now I'm not saying was at all easy,in first few years we went through some tough breaks that only made us work stronger together & want to stay together, we both lost our moms those 1st couple years.

Lil later we talked about having a baby as my maternal instincts were kicking in, and at 23 I had our daughter. Which actually beought us closer together and made me a better person.

We have gone through alot as a couple & we had our ups and downs but the fact that we are always willing to work through them & work together, made it key.

I also had my hubby nag me about quitting smoking for those first 2,3yrs and eventually i got in the right frame of mind to quit smoking & I stuck with it,because its something i finally decided on,also being around the stepkids prior,etc helped too

Like i said you have to have a strong mind frame and be at that point to where you rrally want to quit too.

These past 10yrs especially we as a couple have grown even stronger i would say too,and now at point in our lives that things are changing again and we are trying to make honest best for us. With daughter in college, 1 recent deceased dad and now mine who may not be around longer,as that too hasn't been easy since i had him move in with us 3yrs ago,to help take care of him instead of getting a call late at night that he was found somewhere in the boonies,like happened to him when hsi dad died. Honestly i don't think he will be with us much longer either,who knows.

Also we want to moved on out of CA but can't do so realistically for another 5yrs,so have to hang in there. And i want to travel before I'm way too old.

Anyways,final point I'm getting at,is that if you really want something,your willing ro work with & through it together. And if you're with someone who doesn't want ro better themselves at all but constant stay in past,its not easy and will drag you down. Grant it,i return to past alot for references but now I try to make it a habit of moving forward. Without losing those traditional ways of life & values,morals,etc.