#virginia_laws (Discord ID: 321840769239613453) in Charlottesville 2.0, page 2

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2017-07-30 20:04:38 UTC

I have several cops in my family, most white cops are sympathetic to us

2017-07-30 20:04:49 UTC

Oh I know this for a fact

2017-07-30 20:05:05 UTC

And VSP from rural Virginia...

2017-07-30 20:05:28 UTC

It's always tricky though

2017-07-30 20:06:14 UTC

Public discord here so deleting that out of respect

2017-07-30 20:06:19 UTC

Indeed but I'm not too worried about the cops as long as we act like whites

2017-07-30 20:06:21 UTC

Idk who is on here

2017-07-30 20:06:33 UTC


2017-07-30 20:09:33 UTC

I was digging around in the police politics of Virginia and found Mark Warner but I was looking at this and I thought "WHY is it normal for politicians now to be worth in the double and triple millions of dollars???"


2017-07-30 20:09:54 UTC

WHY is this "okay?"

2017-07-30 20:12:54 UTC

I'm continuing this in <#321378710265659393>

2017-07-30 20:41:24 UTC

Bootlicking cops is not going to gain us anything

2017-07-30 20:52:48 UTC

Acting like an ancap autiste is only going to get you treated like a nigger

2017-07-30 20:54:44 UTC

Im not saying you should do the Antifa "all cops are bastards chants" but doing the "blue lives matter" chants and bootlicking is equally as bad. Cops are not our friends. Just act professional and respectful

2017-07-30 20:57:03 UTC

Same thing.

2017-07-30 20:57:57 UTC

Get to know more cops IRL

No one hates niggers more than white cops

2017-07-30 20:58:12 UTC

The police chief of Cville is not even white

2017-07-30 20:58:47 UTC

VSP will be the main force on the ground, i.e. rural whites from VA

2017-07-30 21:00:45 UTC

Like I said, we should be professional and respectful when interacting with law enforcement but I just don't want people to get some false idea that the police as an entity are our friends or are on our side. That's all

2017-07-30 21:01:17 UTC

The institute isn't

Individual rank and file may be

2017-07-30 21:02:14 UTC

And many times it's those individuals who decide if you are getting a warning or a felony

2017-07-30 21:10:21 UTC

There will be plenty of Oathcucks there to chant blue lives matter. We won't have to do it.

2017-07-30 21:12:43 UTC

Can't we ban them?? Lol

2017-07-30 21:13:23 UTC


2017-07-30 21:13:51 UTC

Yeah.. I despise those larpy tryhards

2017-07-30 21:14:38 UTC

They usually stand in the middle with the police anyway

2017-07-30 21:42:27 UTC

They won't be allowed in our AO as far as I know. I doubt that the PD will let them stand with them either. Not at this rally.

2017-07-30 22:15:01 UTC

Guess they'll have to stand with Antifa

2017-07-30 22:22:09 UTC



2017-07-30 22:22:29 UTC

@Tiwaz that's their plan according to this guy

2017-07-31 00:03:34 UTC

what's the legality on this


2017-07-31 00:06:35 UTC

I'm dying over here.

2017-07-31 10:31:04 UTC

Reminder that if you're arrested, even if you didn't do anything wrong

2017-08-04 00:18:38 UTC

Laws on pocket knives?

2017-08-04 00:21:33 UTC

@Mr. Bulldops see pinned mess. No problems with pocket knives. Anything else is pretty much a no

2017-08-04 00:56:27 UTC

@greg-ky Got it, thanks.

2017-08-04 01:42:32 UTC

Are the cops going to search for weapons at some checkpoint?

2017-08-04 01:42:39 UTC

Is there a list of forbidden items

2017-08-04 01:42:55 UTC

nvm just saw above

2017-08-04 01:43:51 UTC

Someone discussed knives above, what abount blunt objects like batons?

2017-08-04 01:44:57 UTC

If you don't have a flame thrower you're wrong. Just oven yourself and get it over with

2017-08-04 18:37:42 UTC

Does anyone here know if expandable spring batons can be carried openly

2017-08-04 18:37:45 UTC

or not at all

2017-08-04 18:37:55 UTC

Can you only carry ASP's, period?

2017-08-04 18:38:04 UTC

The law on this seems super ague

2017-08-04 18:38:05 UTC


2017-08-04 18:40:45 UTC

Soring batons completely illegal to my knowledge

2017-08-04 20:07:47 UTC

I call the Virginia State Police and ask if Firearms was the only reciprocated weapon. I was told by the dispatcher that any weapon that you could carry in the state of Kentucky concealed carry their. I'm not sure if that's entirely correct but that's what the state police told me

2017-08-04 20:08:05 UTC


2017-08-04 20:08:25 UTC

Ya I wouldn't go off that.

2017-08-04 20:09:27 UTC

Referring you to another state's laws is just setting yourself up to be wrong

2017-08-04 20:09:53 UTC

I know. I was reading on the part about knives and other conceal weapons and it isn't very clear what they will and will not allow

2017-08-04 20:10:49 UTC

And honestly if something happens they're going to push against us regardless of the circumstances

2017-08-04 20:28:00 UTC

knives and guns are more legal than blunt weapons or batons, but its better to only carry what could only be perceived as a defensive tool. i figure knives would cause the police more alarm over a can of pepper spray or a rugged and abrasive shield

2017-08-05 05:42:55 UTC

did we ever get any clear answer on the flagpole question

2017-08-05 13:29:37 UTC

Whip them into passivity like their parent's should have

2017-08-05 14:37:40 UTC

Why would you carry that around

2017-08-05 15:04:45 UTC

Why don't you have a sense of humor <:spaghetti_supremacy:321790566851543041>

2017-08-05 15:24:46 UTC

🤣 But actually a 3' cord makes for a good weapon. Question is, what can we get away with, without receiving assault charges?

2017-08-05 15:32:36 UTC


2017-08-05 15:39:21 UTC

@Baeravon if it presents the optics of merely being a weapon to attack, then it's a bad idea.

2017-08-05 15:45:24 UTC

Exactly. You have a week, bros. Best spend it having four or five of your friends simulate jumping you. Go light, don't get injured before the event, and focus on blocking and pushing back in ways that don't look like assault. Focus on disengaging and getting out of the attackers' dogpile. And just be ready to take beatings while protecting vitals. You'll live, you won't get arrested, and you might even get enemies arrested.

2017-08-05 15:54:00 UTC

Notice the passive aggressive way that Fellarca shoulder-pushes the fashy guy. We may need to stick to that kind of strategy.

2017-08-05 16:36:38 UTC

That video made my blood boil. She's a disgusting, vile person.

2017-08-05 16:56:01 UTC

Yeah, give off the "don't fuck with me" vibe, but don't pull a Felarca

2017-08-05 17:14:03 UTC

Appealing to those pigs is such a stupid white trait it pisses me off so much

2017-08-05 19:18:24 UTC

Welcome to the pit of vipers.

2017-08-05 20:12:00 UTC

His first mistake was not slapping her. The second you let a strike, even a pitiful one, go unanswered, you embolden these pond scum

2017-08-06 04:28:08 UTC

Personal tasers?

2017-08-06 05:52:14 UTC

Why would you want to taze yourself?

2017-08-06 20:08:04 UTC

@everyone If you are worried about if it is a weapon, it could be called one. It's not the weapon it's the person who wields it.
The best weapon we have is our minds and the people to our left and right. If the moment comes, violence of action and team work will win the day not any apparatus.

2017-08-06 20:08:56 UTC

These are not reasoning people we're dealing with, friend.

2017-08-06 20:09:01 UTC

Unless you really know what you are doing I would not rely on a stun gun.

2017-08-06 20:09:18 UTC

holy fucking shit are people actually posting improvised weapons in the discord

2017-08-06 20:09:21 UTC

are you fucking retarded

2017-08-06 20:09:24 UTC


2017-08-06 20:09:29 UTC

Violence of action is extremely important!

2017-08-06 20:09:30 UTC

Yes they are @wyatt

2017-08-06 20:09:35 UTC

on what planet do you think its okay to do that

2017-08-06 20:09:46 UTC


2017-08-06 20:09:51 UTC

Kek jk

2017-08-06 20:09:53 UTC


2017-08-06 20:10:10 UTC

I knew this would get the Jewish cat lady's attention

2017-08-06 20:10:12 UTC

inb4 it was just a prank bro

2017-08-06 20:10:17 UTC

just fuck my shit up fam.

2017-08-06 20:11:11 UTC

@everyone Just carry a pocket full of rocks. They can be in a sock or something.

2017-08-06 20:11:19 UTC

Don't do that

2017-08-06 20:11:21 UTC

They are only rocks right?

2017-08-06 20:11:23 UTC


2017-08-06 20:11:24 UTC

This man is mentally retarded

2017-08-06 20:11:25 UTC


2017-08-06 20:11:38 UTC

I'm going to have pepper spray

2017-08-06 20:11:42 UTC

Is this legal in Va? Asking for a friend who just had his extension cord whip retk.


2017-08-06 20:12:22 UTC

Studies show 999/1000 niggers and feminists fuck right off when faced with pepper spray

2017-08-06 20:12:23 UTC

>red star

2017-08-06 20:12:25 UTC

(Don't carry a pocket full of rocks)

2017-08-06 20:12:42 UTC

This is the official self defense strategy of the alt-right

2017-08-06 20:12:44 UTC

Are we back to me demanding advice on bringing my horse riders from Eli?

2017-08-06 20:13:00 UTC

A sock full of rocks is potentially lethal, see Clanton

2017-08-06 20:13:08 UTC

@Tyrone We never left.

2017-08-06 20:13:10 UTC

Stop cluttering this channel with things unrelated to Virginia laws y'all

2017-08-06 20:13:25 UTC

Can't help it.

2017-08-06 20:13:46 UTC

Every channel in an alt-right discord is a shitposting channel

2017-08-06 20:13:49 UTC

I just wanted the T(ank)Q answered.

2017-08-06 20:14:53 UTC

It's not and telling people to bring a weapon that will likely get them arrested is directly working against UTR attendees

2017-08-06 20:16:04 UTC

@Skrrt You mean the rocks or the tank or the horse?

2017-08-06 20:16:13 UTC

I was kidding about the tank.

2017-08-06 20:17:35 UTC

The rocks, it's a really poor idea and would likely get our people arrested.

2017-08-06 20:17:47 UTC


2017-08-06 20:18:38 UTC


2017-08-06 20:33:03 UTC

@IceBaine Yea good luck with that

2017-08-06 20:49:51 UTC

@IceBaine at some point that's not our choice.

2017-08-06 20:59:14 UTC

We all hope for the best, and would prefer it to be conflict-free. The use of wisdom, logic, and intelligence is the best choice. But everyone should be prepared to defend themselves if need be.

2017-08-06 21:02:30 UTC

Uniting together for our common cause is the best weapon we can bring

2017-08-07 02:16:26 UTC


2017-08-07 02:16:38 UTC

The ANTIFAgs aren't going to do anything IMO [edited for spergs]

2017-08-07 02:16:45 UTC

At least at the rally

2017-08-07 02:17:03 UTC

good idea to operate under that assumption tbh^

2017-08-07 02:17:30 UTC

Outside of the rally, I'd say roll with at least a coupla' three bros

2017-08-07 02:17:44 UTC

That's actually stupid

2017-08-07 02:17:50 UTC

Everything you've just said

2017-08-07 02:18:00 UTC

How so?

2017-08-07 02:18:28 UTC

Southern police don't let these twinks run wild like the ones here in CA do

2017-08-07 02:18:54 UTC

Underestimating your enemy is retarded

2017-08-07 02:19:23 UTC

And these fucks want you to be with a couple or three of your boys so that they can mob you with 20

2017-08-07 02:19:30 UTC

So no, that's stupid

2017-08-07 02:19:42 UTC

Big groups are better

2017-08-07 02:19:49 UTC

I was at Berkeley, it's not underestimating them to say 90% of them are 80lb weaklings looking for their next fix

2017-08-07 02:20:23 UTC

Most could easily be snapped like towels

2017-08-07 02:20:32 UTC

Saying that you don't think they are going to do anything when they've been shown to act violently any time they can is underestimating.

2017-08-07 02:20:41 UTC

Obviously giant groups are better

2017-08-07 02:20:47 UTC

They are crazy and erratic individuals

2017-08-07 02:20:49 UTC


2017-08-07 02:20:52 UTC

>at least

2017-08-07 02:21:02 UTC

You can't expect them to act logically

2017-08-07 02:21:22 UTC

Yeah, that dumpster ram in April wasn't very logical lol

2017-08-07 02:21:39 UTC

Whatever just keep your buddy's close, never let your guard down and always be vigilant

2017-08-07 02:21:51 UTC

Watching 5 of them cling to it after our goys pushed it back into them was hilarious

2017-08-07 02:21:59 UTC

They literally want to kill us man.

2017-08-07 02:22:14 UTC

We have to be ready for everything

2017-08-07 02:22:34 UTC

And saying they aren't going to do anything is stupid

2017-08-07 02:22:47 UTC

Because you don't know what they are going to do.

2017-08-07 02:23:02 UTC
2017-08-07 02:23:34 UTC

"They're going to have a GRIDS Mecha loaded with Bikelock Missiles and we need to come prepped in tacticool gear"

2017-08-07 02:23:37 UTC


2017-08-07 02:25:17 UTC

Being a sarcastic ass is slightly better than being one who tells people our enemy won’t do anything, I suppose.

2017-08-07 02:26:03 UTC

Just my 2 cents, I'm not telling anyone what to do

2017-08-07 02:26:17 UTC

Well your 2 cents is stupid

2017-08-07 02:26:37 UTC

And if you are going to tell people not to be prepared you're not helping at all.

2017-08-07 02:27:04 UTC

And saying "they won't do anything" is the same as saying don't be prepared

2017-08-07 02:27:06 UTC

Yeah, sure, if I actually said that

2017-08-07 02:27:13 UTC


2017-08-07 02:27:21 UTC

Editing to say "imo"

2017-08-07 02:27:24 UTC


2017-08-07 02:28:17 UTC

I don't know why you are getting butt hurt about being corrected when you are being stupid

2017-08-07 02:28:36 UTC

I mean, if I made a ridiculous claim and someone corrected me I wouldn't get upset

2017-08-07 02:28:47 UTC

But that's just me I guess

2017-08-07 02:57:06 UTC

Why do the most opinionated amoung this group and (I'm presuming least experienced in these rallies) always feel the strongest need to give their bad advice. Maybe its like lifting where people who cant bench two plates feel the strongest need to put their bad advice in your face to compensate

2017-08-07 03:06:33 UTC

or maybe people are just excited and anxious. let's not further divide, we are to unite the right 😃

2017-08-07 03:07:15 UTC

Being excited is no reason to be a turd.

2017-08-07 03:07:34 UTC

I'm all for quelling infighting, but if somebody says something that might get people hurt, that has to get shut down.

2017-08-07 03:08:24 UTC

Maybe these big mouths who are oh so certain of their badass street cred and limitless pwnage capabilities could be excited in a less explicitly harmful way

2017-08-07 03:52:32 UTC

Not being able to bench two plates is illegal in Virginia.

2017-08-07 05:06:01 UTC

You wish, nigger

2017-08-07 07:41:44 UTC

My god goys....if we shot eachother down everytime sometime gave an opinion we didnt agree with we'd never get anywhere. @Gustavschwer-OH Why so aggressive with your fellow kinfolk?? Are we strangers or are we brothers in this fight.? Some of you need to remember who we are and how to talk to one another

2017-08-07 07:49:06 UTC

There's a difference between shooting down a person and an idea-- particularly a bad idea.

2017-08-07 07:49:20 UTC

Also this isn't exactly the crowd for tone policing lol.

2017-08-07 07:52:36 UTC

I think this is exactly the crowd. We should all be very mindful of one another. If we dont agree with someone we can express that in a well tempered and well mannered way. We're all brothers here

2017-08-07 08:06:31 UTC


2017-08-07 08:07:54 UTC

If someone wants to suggest things that are going to get my brothers hurt I am going to make my opinion known so that it doesn't happen.

2017-08-07 08:10:25 UTC

And it's not so much that it's an opinion that I disagree with its blatant stupidity that's going to get someone hurt.

2017-08-07 09:10:24 UTC

Sure I understand that, youve made that clear a couple times. But when we go to give feed back on their "stupid 2 cents" and tell them "That's actually stupid, everything you just said", you wouldnt think thats a little agressive in your approach of correction? Anyways....Ive talked too much now:/ Ive just seen a few arguements start on here and its dissapointing. Ill stop the "tone policing" haha, sorry

2017-08-07 09:25:01 UTC


2017-08-07 09:25:44 UTC

I didn't tell anyone to do anything

2017-08-07 09:28:39 UTC

Tbh if a random dude on the interwebs saying he doesn't think it will be a bloodbath is somehow enough to convince someone to show up in a pink unitard with "Kick Me!" written on their back, that person deserves what happens to them

2017-08-07 09:53:12 UTC

This will be a lot of people's first event, so yes, it's important they have a realistic idea of what could happen so they can prepare properly. Those who are inexperienced are looking to these channels for advice, so everyone should keep that in mind when posting.

2017-08-07 09:54:23 UTC

Especially in channels like "Virginia laws" "tactics" etc

2017-08-07 10:06:58 UTC
2017-08-07 10:07:07 UTC


2017-08-07 10:07:23 UTC

Just thought you'd find this amusing

2017-08-07 10:07:33 UTC

oh i saw

2017-08-07 10:07:37 UTC


2017-08-07 10:07:56 UTC

piss poor planning..every time

2017-08-07 15:26:12 UTC

Unite the right doesnt mean you don't correct stupid shit that is going to get inexperienced people hurt.

2017-08-07 15:27:05 UTC

Being divisive doesn't mean we are now no judgement shitlibs who treat everything is a carefree flowery way regardless of consequence.

2017-08-07 21:55:01 UTC

Initiial survey of laws to be aware of regarding the change of permit location. I'm not an expert, nor suggesting a particular course of action, I just want to be informed before I go.

Failure to Disperse from Riot or Unlawful Assembly in Virginia
It is a Class 3 misdemeanor under §18.2-407 to remain at the place of a riot or unlawful assembly in Virginia after receiving a lawful order to disperse. To convict an offender of failing to disperse from a riot or unlawful assembly in Virginia under §18.2-407, the Commonwealth must prove that a riot or unlawful assembly occurred, the offender received a lawful warning to disperse, and the offender remained at the place of the riot or unlawful assembly after receiving the warning to disperse.

Class 3 and 4 misdemeanors, the least serious misdemeanors, are punishable by fines, but no jail time. A Class 3 misdemeanor is punishable by a fine of up to $500. A Class 4 misdemeanor is punishable by a fine of up to $250. (Va. Ann. Code § 18.2-11.)

I'm not certain of laws applied to tourists (Canada) if arrested for misdemeanors, I think they can forbid us entry to the US in the future if we're stopped even for small things. If anyone knows more let me know but we might not be able to take a chance to incur small charges.

2017-08-07 22:01:23 UTC

I'm looking around for relevant statutes on lawfully CC'ing compounded with that statute above "Failure to Disperse...etc"

2017-08-07 22:02:38 UTC

If we lose the permit, you probably shouldn't have a firearm

2017-08-07 22:02:42 UTC

IANAL, but once you commit a crime you're no longer lawfully CCing.

2017-08-07 22:03:12 UTC

And at that point it just becomes posession of a firearm whilst in the comission of a crime.

2017-08-07 22:03:57 UTC

I won't be carrying if we don't have a permit, because that opens the door to a misdemeanor which can be elevated to a felony if I'm carrying. I won't tell anybody else what to do.

2017-08-07 22:09:41 UTC
2017-08-07 22:10:17 UTC

10 years for carrying, even if you are legally, and are declared part of an unlawful assembly that gets categorized as a riot or mob.

2017-08-07 22:10:55 UTC

Which is a very real possibility if we are told to disperse and/or a melee breaks out.

2017-08-07 22:11:25 UTC

"In most cases, every member of the group is responsible for any crimes committed by any other member of the group."

2017-08-07 22:12:26 UTC

your class 4 misdeamor will turn into a felony if you're carrying

2017-08-07 22:12:36 UTC

That's the gist of it

2017-08-07 22:17:01 UTC

Basically if you're gonna carry, have a good attorney.

2017-08-07 23:09:40 UTC

Basically don't carry.

2017-08-07 23:15:46 UTC

Is a baseball helmet no cage against the face covering law?

2017-08-07 23:16:50 UTC

It doesn't have anything covering your face, and it's just a helmet?

2017-08-07 23:30:19 UTC

Are helmets under the same boat as body armor @V I T A L I T Y ?

2017-08-07 23:30:41 UTC

I have no idea. I am not a lawyer and don't want to hand out legal advice lol.

2017-08-07 23:30:57 UTC

Helmets /should/ be fine. Ballistic armor, not so much.

2017-08-07 23:31:15 UTC

As far as a helmet that has no face coverings, I don't see how that would bring the face covering law into question... since there is no face covering.

2017-08-08 03:16:22 UTC


2017-08-08 03:16:23 UTC


2017-08-08 03:16:38 UTC

I'll be on the side of caution then.

2017-08-08 03:16:47 UTC

I just dont want to get a head injury.

2017-08-08 03:17:38 UTC

You won't get in trouble for a helmet.

2017-08-08 03:18:07 UTC

TBH if we don't get the permit reinstated I would rethink coming altogether (we have a Wheatfield Dweller thing being organized away from the rally), but if you do end up coming, a helmet is the bare minimum I'd advise.

2017-08-08 03:18:44 UTC

Definitely one without a face cage. Aside from the legal question, it gives people something to grab on to, and getting facemasked will fuck your neck up.

2017-08-08 04:33:12 UTC

Whats the laws in virginia about keeping guns in your car. i.e. a handgun in the glovebox?

2017-08-08 04:52:29 UTC

with the changing elements of recent events, I see myself leaving the CCW at home but joining with a knife and/or baton. anyone have a source on them?

2017-08-08 05:12:54 UTC

Most pocket knives legal? I think theres a pin about it

2017-08-08 05:14:08 UTC

Scratch that, i dont think there is,

2017-08-08 05:21:12 UTC

What situation will you be in where you should use a knife but not a gun?

2017-08-08 13:34:20 UTC


2017-08-08 13:36:15 UTC

Cutting boxes and rope and stuff?

2017-08-08 13:37:14 UTC

Needing deadly force while in a crowd. Hypothetically speaking.

2017-08-08 13:37:57 UTC

@Hand Banana I generally prefer to use a knife when I prepare food

2017-08-08 13:38:20 UTC

to make sure to pass that stealth mission without setting off any alarms...

2017-08-08 13:38:35 UTC

If you don't use a gun to dice up your veggies you're a faggot.

2017-08-08 13:38:51 UTC


2017-08-08 13:39:03 UTC

God damnit, Leah!! Way to ruin my troll. 😉

2017-08-08 13:39:27 UTC

@Leah - VA that gsr gives it a great smokey taste too

2017-08-08 13:39:58 UTC

Just doing my job. 😉

2017-08-08 13:41:54 UTC

@Hand Banana when I run out of pepper spray. And there's some talk of having misdemeanor charges like unlawful assembly being upgraded to felonies for merely concealed carrying

2017-08-08 13:50:13 UTC

This is larpy as shit. We aren't going to have rahowa in the streets of cville

2017-08-08 13:53:35 UTC

>underestimating antifa

Good goy

2017-08-08 13:59:44 UTC

I literally only commented to point out there are situations you'd rather have a knife than a gun. Doubt anyone will need a knife to take care of antifa personally.

2017-08-08 14:00:51 UTC

A good sturdy club should work just as well.

2017-08-08 14:48:57 UTC

I hear they melt if you squirt em with soapy water

2017-08-08 14:54:46 UTC

Knife is infinite ammo why wouldn't you have one

2017-08-08 16:07:08 UTC

Axe handle > knife

2017-08-08 17:40:55 UTC

Anything can be considered a weapon if it's used as such. Don;t use it as such and you'll be fine

2017-08-09 02:11:44 UTC

Self defense insurance info


2017-08-09 02:15:06 UTC

Note: USCCA insurance covers *all legal weapons* used in a self defense situation, not just guns.

2017-08-09 02:15:26 UTC

Also the up-front portion of that is important.

2017-08-09 02:15:41 UTC

So that you're not scrounging shekels hoping to get reimbursed if you win your case

2017-08-09 23:12:57 UTC

I've been told that using a knife in self defense is mostly illegal to the point of not even being worth bringing one

2017-08-09 23:27:09 UTC

Yeah knives are messy and juries are more likely to let you off if you shoot some one 3x then they are to let you off if you stab some one 12-20x bung that is how many stabs on average it will take to take some one out

2017-08-10 01:19:45 UTC

What about Batons?

2017-08-10 11:30:20 UTC

don't bring anything like that

2017-08-10 16:18:54 UTC

Asps are generally treated specially and viewed as LE type deals and regulated many times in local ordinances

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