that's my hope, that once BRICS pulls the trigger, we will see Trump stock greenbacks and oust the Fed - and who loves gold more than Trump?

Blacks

yo

ayo

hol up

so you be sayin

Hahaha

I mean, you can't really disagree because it's not an opinion. "Corporatism" refers to a specific economic system that has nothing to do with corporations running rampant. Scandinavian countries, for example, use a form of corporatism. The US does not practice corporatism. It's not just a slur, it's a specific economic system, and anyone who is educated in history is going to give you a weird look if you use "corporatism" in that context, because that's literally not what it means. @TMatthews

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

@Jacob I can because that's not what the ordinary person thinks of when they hear it. Fascism is a specific ideology too, but it basically just means "anything authoritarian that I dislike" in modern American political language

monopolies are ok if they're not inflexible commodities like energy & food, because they will drive competition

government should only be regulating inelastic commodities and leave the rest to free market dynamics

Certain monopolies are natural (like power companies). Those are generally already regulated

@TMatthews what about syndicalism?

We need to guarantee free speech online. That has to come by regulation

Utilities like energy generally are monopolies because it doesn’t make sense to run ten different electric lines to anyone’s house. Same goes for water.

syndicalism is free market

i support syndicalism is we want free market

if we don't want free market

@TMatthews Sure, that's not what the ordinary person thinks, but you can't just automatically assume that everyone is uneducated. There's people who know the actual definition of corporatism, and they're just going to laugh at you, the same way that we laugh at boomers and Antifa members who throw around "fascism".

Do you think Antifa members sounds smart when they call random things "fascism"? That's exactly how it's going to come off when you refer to random things as "corporatism" to an educated person.

I support Stalin's plan economics

5 year plans everybody lessgo

@Nerv - VA that's true in one sense, but it's not optimal if you want to avoid risk. that's where multi corporate structures are beneficial - because of redundancy, not choice

Maybe IE should have five year goals.

^

i mean that's the only reason the soviet economy was anywhere significant in 1941

@Jacob I don't appreciate the condescension. I respectfully disagree. Words change meaning over time and can mean different things in different places. In Europe, "liberalism" is considered right wing. In America "liberal" means broadly left wing. That doesn't make the American definition inherently wrong. In America, you can and should make a distinction between capitalism (having private property and generally free markets) vs corporatism (letting multi billion dollar multinationals do whatever they want)

I mean it wouldn’t hurt to have a clear vision of where we want to be.

Wow. This might actually be some brilliant honeypot move to force watermelon marxists to show their hand.

The outcry and push to federalize private and state controlled lands for "conservation" has led to an ecological and economic disaster.

45% of California is owned by the Federal Government, from National Parks to Wilderness Refuge etc.

They act as an absentee landlord, implementing a top-down approach to ecosystem management, which is why past harvesting methods proved unsustainable and harmful to connecting ecosystems.

All of this has been going on and growing for decades. Meanwhile fertile forests have grown to tinderboxes, under the direction of the federal government. And now since so much of the federal budget set aside for forest management has been spent on fire suppression the amount of maintenance backlogs tops the 10's of billions.

The only way to combat the problems caused by federal land grabs is to relinquish control of these lands back to the states, then from the states back to the counties, and so on.

Ecological management needs to be a bottom-up approach, which takes into account all related ecosystems. This is why the NW forest plan has failed, this is why Endangered Species Act has failed, etc etc.

fascism in an economic system is considered corporatism - merger of state and corporate powers

https://twitter.com/PatrickCaseyIE/status/1060339370866159616?s=20

This is what Patrick was talking about in the fireside @missliterallywho

You can pick a different word if you find it so crucial, but the basic distinction between capitalism that favors the nation vs that which favors corporations is essential

corporations are meaningless, they are extensions of the state apparatus

there is no sovereign corporation

Corporations largely control state policy via big money politics. That's why GOP congressmen support more immigration when their voters hate it

capitalism is sound money, period. govt focuses on managing money and the goods and services are handled by private parties. corporations play no part unless they are subsidized by the state

Capitalism will inevitably beget monopolies and oligopolies absent regulation

we do not have a capitalist economy in america, we are a part of the global corporate structure known as fascism - unelected elites control global finance

capitalism would be GOLD and GREENBACKS, a true USD

@TMatthews would you agree that Juche economics would be good for america?

compard to the current state

monopoly is not a bad word, and it's rarely achievable in any real sense. capitalism produces multiplicities, which defy the idea of monopolies

the only monopolies that are "bad" are over land, crops, & energy

@Vilhjalmyr Interesting breakdown, thanks for sharing!

North Korea best Korea.

@TMatthews We don't get to be the ones that change the meaning of words. Maybe when we have control over the media, but we just can't do that right now. Even in America, if you talk to any educated person about economics, corporatism refers to a system where employers and employees are sorted into interest groups based on sector and the state mediates negotiations between them to make sure each side is fairly represented.

I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm just saying what the facts are. The fact is, if we just change the meaning of words whenever we want to, it's going to sounds silly to educated people. I'm sorry if saying that comes off the wrong way, but that's just the truth, and it has to be said.

Historically, the great era of capitalism saw the development of monopolies or oligopolies in every major industry. Oil (Rockefeller), Steel (Carnegie), Railroads (Vanderbilt), Explosives (DuPont), Sugar (Domino) etc

i don't think you have bad reasoning @TMatthews , but i agree with earlier comment about definitions. you're using common tongue rather than economics facts

Yeah but what do you guys think about Bitcoin?

It's not even common tongue. The word "corporatism" is rarely used outside of economics discussions.

@Jacob Again, I have literally never had a single person argue my definition and I've discussed this in college economics courses. If it matters so much, fine, pick a different word, but corporatism is a logical choice when critiquing excessive corporate power

@Nerv - VA Juche gang here, who up?>

@ThisIsChris it's decent only because we can't undo globalism, and it's a global commodity. worth holding some, but i'd hold physical gold first

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFof6s1O1mY @Nerv - VA

OK how about Monero?

@TMatthews Because most people don't have the energy to argue it. How often do you argue with someone when they say something that sounds silly to you?

i think you might be able to make some money if you understand fundamentals and trading technicals with other coins, but bitcoin seems the most robust @ThisIsChris

BTC / LTC is the gold & silver - with ETH being more like oil with higher volatility and utility as "gas" for Dapps

@Jacob I'm literally an econ major. I would respectfully disagree and bring up the definition if someone used a definition I didn't agree with. Ultimately, however, the "people only pretended to agree because they think you're too stupid to argue with" argument has no basis in reality

if corporatism can only exist with a state apparatus, then it's not even related to capitalism

Exactly, it isn't

@Jacob As I have said repeatedly, you can use a different term. In fact, if you have one, by all means let me know. For communicating with ordinary people though, corporatism works well in my experience.

Corporatism is closer to socialism

^

Can you have a socialist blockchain?

Capitalism cannot exist without the state either

that's not true at all lol

Ancap would inevitably evolve into warlords

capitalism is simply relational values, it has no implied rule structure at all

Capitalism requires a stable currency, backed by government. We can't go back to bartering in the modern economy

that's false

hm

I'm running a sentiment analysis on this chat right now

stable currency is a creation OF capitalism to increase fungibility and liquidity

seems the issue is becoming contentious

Capitalism above all requires private property. For it to work, you need the state to enforce property rights

maybe we can change topic

I wish I was able to make it to DR

👮🏻

How bout that sportsball game?

@TMatthews Well, ultimately I can't prove whether it does or doesn't work in your experience because I wasn't there. Obviously if you think it's working if you, then there's nothing I can do to stop you. I'll just say that there are very many people who know what that words means, and it's going to sounds stupid to them to just make up definitions.

That's all, it's probably not productive to discuss further than this.

yeah, what sports are going on now, just foot ball right?

oh yeah hockey too

some local IE people we're thinking of attending an Islanders game

we recently went to the opera

and did a walking tour of some historical sights in nyc

@Vilhjalmyr "45% of California is owned by the Federal Government, from National Parks to Wilderness Refuge etc.

They act as an absentee landlord, implementing a top-down approach to ecosystem management, which is why past harvesting methods proved unsustainable and harmful to connecting ecosystems.
" That's really interesting to know! In his tweet Trump seems to blame the CA government, but you say it's a federal issue. Is it Trump mismanaging the forests there or some government beauraucracy?

I actually do like hockey

@Nerv - VA yeah it's nice, an IE bud and I went to a pregame this year, he explained me the rules. The offsides thing always confused me before, but now it's a pretty cool game.

@ThisIsChris CA used up all their fed funding on unscrupulous bullshit, so they criminally mismanaged in order to have fires worth declaring emergency over, which kicks in more funding. that's their "workaround" to fed funding canceled over sanctuary cities

@ThisIsChris nice 👍

@Gumbo - AZ that's huge if true, do you have a source that is the motivation? Setting large swaths of your own state on fire to get gibs you lost because you became a sanctuary state is huge and insane.

@Nerv - VA do you have a team you watch?

i didn't say they set it on fire, but they rolled back ENORMOUS funding for the programs that managed environment conditions leading to fires

that's why trump called them out, because they wasted the money they were supposed to use protecting those lands. i agree with what he said above

@ThisIsChris penguins, I watch caps too sometimes

no kidding, got connections to pittsburgh?

That’s where I’m from

I moved to Va after HS

They also use it to push the global warming chorus

@Gumbo - AZ it's actually mostly red districts that were on fire

i smell some "broward county 2.0" here

*are

absolutely

@ThisIsChris I grew up in Wexford, North Allegheny.

and you will see voter fraud there soon as well

do you know why 9 people died so far in the fire?

traffic jams

the fire caught people in the traffic jams

and burned their cars

or them

@Nerv - VA cool! any Amish lived near you?

Haha no, it’s like the suburbs.

Or it was I heard it’s totally different now.

Also it was very very white.

@Nerv - VA Isn't Pittsburgh like the whitest city?

and most livable?

I heard it’s changing

But it was

not whitest if you look to rural but yes for big cities - it's very lib now though

Well so long as Pittsburgh stays 2% white while everything else goes to 1% then it will remain the whitest city!

PGH will explode from NYC flight, they have really good setup

i've been thinking about moving there, i did a city matrix across the US and it's poised to grow like Austin did over the last decade

Yep, "meds and eds" was the catch phrase I heard while I was there

very good schools

u pitt

cmu

a few others in the area too, duquesne

Chatham

@YourFundamentalTheorum probably not the right server for that question...

<:nervous:359009898115104770>

@ThisIsChris yea actually the area I grew up was listed as most livable and best place to raise kids.

It’s liberal but a lot of them are openly racist

And wealthy

Dang it I missed the hockey talk

@VinceChaos quick what's your hot take on hockey

someone say hackey

Its implicit

@Vilhjalmyr that's wat we're takin aboot

Hockey is the white ethnostate

Go caps

I'm a Flyers fan, mostly because i'm a masochist and love losing

go sharks

or canucks

either works for me

@Vilhjalmyr you have connections to philly?

I was born in Harrisburg, Pa. Grew up there half my childhood. Gravitated towards philly teams.

pittsburgh btfo

coyotes have a better record so far this year lol

"I want unlimited European immigration"

I dont understand the context of this graph

I have seen some different graphs with the same type of data on that, @Jacob

That's from *Alternative Hypothesis* a dissident right data analyst

pretty interesting piece, I suggest reading it @Vilhjalmyr

@Vilhjalmyr https://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2018/08/10/deconstructing-the-white-vote/

@NateDahl76 Do you remember where you saw them?

Couldn't pinpoint it. I think I was looking up things about Scandinavian American demographics

Yeah the core American is ultimately Western European and Anglo specifically although most other Europeans integrate and assimilate very well

One of the main criticisms I've heard of the piece is that immigration from some of those european countries is heavily jewish, thus misrepresenting the non-jewish write members of those groups. That is a valid criticism but is only a factor for *some* of the countries on the democrat side of that list

And I say this as my dad is fully Italian

@ThisIsChris - I lived near Amish

I was actually accused of being one multiple times by people

No, it's not good, they looked very very strange. Their faces

And Jews have an effect on others living around them if they’re not obviously jewish

I don't wish for America to lose it's Germany character. Unfortunately, not all Polaks agree with me.

@Nemets were informing me that ashkenazi jews are basically 40% semite 50% italian and 10% slav

he has a lot of papers to back it up too

There's a place called Booth's Corners in Delaware where the Amish would sell their pies and things. I used to go and the Amish girls would just STARE at me, and I'd ask my mom why they wouldn't stop staring.

I wonder if any Amish people watch anime

Well, no, but they did make pocky-flavored chicken pot pies.

Did you Chicken pot pies have such a non-sensical name because the Amish called the recipe "bot boi" or something?

Bot boi???

@Selma I knew one guy that decided not to be Amish he was pretty normal. You never would have known he was brought up Amish.

@Selma How's that possible? Do Amish even know what pocky is?

No, I was joking < 3

That's very interesting, @Nerv - VA . Some of them are very normal, but I think they tend to have a distinct look to them, possibly from lack of dentistry? I don't know.

A lot of that graph is probably influenced by how people who leave their original country do so in part because they dont like it, so european immigrants from nationalist countries are libtards and vice versa in the current year

My classmates thought I was a Mennonite when I lived in Canada

The amish go through whats called Romspringer, when they turn 18, they are allowed a year in the outside world to decide what they want.

@TylerHess interesting point

@TylerHess or poor

I did hear that Amish people and even menonites are becoming inbred because their numbers are so small.

I used to throw festivals in PA and we would have amish kids come and get shitty drunk lol

Well some AMish people have 6 fingers.

So...

For real?

Thats how they build furniture so well

The "12 Tribes" people are also pretty cool, and less hostile to outsiders so probably not inbred at all

If I was an Italian nationalist I would be trying to #MIGA and thus staying in Italy regardless of the economy, and if I was a nationalist Saxon I'd be getting the bloody hell out of the UK to a civilized country even if I had to leave a cushy job behind

They, of course, believe that they are the real jews

Sometimes I'd see Amish teenagers in Walmart treating it like it was an amusement park.

@TylerHess That's a great point

>tfw Polish immigrants only vote 29% Republican

Something doesn't sound right about the 26% for Russians. That has to be due to Jews.

yeah a lot of Russian immigrants are Jewish

Actually, I don't know. A lot of immigrants are socially conservative but vote Democrat so they can get more welfare.

Wouldn't be surprised if my fellow Slavs do that

>immigrants
>getting welfare
😠

@missliterallywho 12 tribes are communal and deny you autonomy. They lure AT / PCT thru hikers in with hostels and delis near/on the trail.

> immigrants
> being a real thing
😡

>be me

>see an immigrant

>mfw <:chad:359013583469805568>

12 tribes are a cult. I lived in Rutland and observed them often.

> be me
> look in the mirror
> punch the glass and break it
> tfw the second generation immigrant in the mirror was me

all religious communities could be called a cult as could all military or fraternal organizations

IE is a fertility cult

I can understand wanting to stay somewhere and make your homeland great but at what point does it become "I have to look out for my immediate family before my homeland". Which is something I can empathize with.

@Wood-Ape - OK/MN I know a woman whose ex husband grew up in their community but left as an adult. She gave birth amongst them and her son's paternal relatives still live there. As she tells it, it's not actually a "cult" but appears that way to outsiders.

Don't have kids if you can't support them @Trashboat

I am not in this position, just empathizing with Euro immigrants/immigrants in general

That’s exactly what someone in a cult would say @missliterallywho

@missliterallywho hmm. I don't wish them harm but I would not recommend any IE member get involved with them.

@Logan are we a fertility cult?

And what if you had kids and then things hit the fan unbeknownst to you?

As is the case sometimes

like what?

There are allegations of child abuse and "prima nocta" type actions from each leader

Like most of the reason Euro's came here

Like the reason Pilgrims came here

As a child of European immigrants, they came for bullshit reasons mostly

@Wood-Ape - OK/MN they don't have the same goals as us so of course we wouldn't join them, but they are revolting against modernity in a somewhat admirable way.

And the Pilgrims were settlers, not immigrants

Maybe yours did

Settlers build something new. Immigrants take advantage of what other people's ancestors created. To call settlers immigrants is an insult to settlers.

I'm just saying, I can understand why they do what they did.

Okay, I'll give you a genuine answer

@missliterallywho They make a good turkey sandwich and many of their girls are just my favorite aesthetic, I'll give them that credit.

Allegations of child abuse often follow insular religious groups. Doesnt mean they're always true.

I understand why immigrants come here. Because America is awesome!! 🇺🇸

@ThisIsChris cult is a word people play fast and loose with. If used accurately it could describe every denomination of popular religions. We don't use it that way because it carries a negative connotation.

Let's say you're living in your Eastern European country, war breaks out, and you're absolutely not able to fight. In that case, you should be eligible for temporary asylum, and you should be sent back the second your country gets better.

@Trashboat Is that a good answer?

Sure

@Logan yeah but don't need to be fertile to be in IE, we're not checking

Most, not all, I could see some being thrilled to live under Imperator Trump

I’m looking it up in Wikipedia and they are also know as “yellow deli people”. I’ve never heard of them.

@Wood-Ape - OK/MN There was an old dude at their deli in CA who would eye me creepily every time I ate there, then send his wife over to wait on our table. They're certainly not all cool people.

@ThisIsChris I was joking about that/making a point

Real fertility cult hours

@missliterallywho gross. Sorry that happened to ya.

Christians don't check that you have been baptized or sincerely believe the teachings either

wow

just

Society

X-ians btfo

@Wood-Ape - OK/MN no big deal, kinda used to it from frequenting dive bars in my early 20s 💁

I'm not, like, totally heartless or anything. Like, I'm not gonna get mad if Ukrainian war orphans get temporary asylum. But I'm generally against permanent migration.

Even in the case of useful skilled workers, there's no need to let them stay permanently. Just give them work visas that last as long as they're useful. @Trashboat

Yeah, when I was 17, a Jewish photographer wanted to take pictures of me and set me up with his son. Kept asking my mom if I was allowed to date at 17. Like he wanted it arranged lolol

uhhhhh you sure you weren't getting groomed?