@Pat-MA haha I think you will not miss drinking very much

@ThisIsChris Haha, I have been cutting down a lot. That mainly applies to her because we get into arguments when she drinks

@Pat-MA Things don't have to be perfect all the time, at those times I suggest thinking of times she puts up with or does things for you

Thanks man. True stuff

@Pat-MA Pleasure to put in my two cents

Only advice I'll probably ever give here, take it or leave it... It's cliché, but: when you meet the one that truly makes you want to be a better man, don't let her go. You'll feel it. It won't feel like she's out of your league. You'll just want to be the best you can be for her because she deserves it. That's the one.

tfw u had that but were too young and stupid to realize it

Why what happened with your relationship?

Living together before marriage is not trad.

I never understood what's wrong with just living together

Isn't sex before marriage supposed to be the degenerate part?

Unfortunately in the world we live in it is easier to cohabitate in many cases. As for the sex before marraige, it is difficult to get married in your early 20s due to financial reasons/ finding a woman who is mature enough

Both living together and having sex outside of marriage are disastrous for relationships.
Living together causes scandal. It let's other couples know that cohabitation is appropriate. Not only that, but it is a slight to any good woman's reputation.

False

Not in todays world

I have to agree. In a time before such rampant degeneracy was the norm, it would go without saying that living together before marriage would be a bad move. Unfortunately, because so many people engage in antisocial behaviour, I would think it would be advisable to spend at least a year together under the same roof before you get married. Maybe move in together after your engagement, but I don't think it's wise to never cohabitate before it's too late. Living together gives you an opportunity to see what someone is really like. Unfortunately, you really can do that, unless you spend most of your free time together

How can you advance a relationship if marraige is not possible at the moment?

Unfortunately getting married is not as easy as it used to be

@John O - Just because something is the norm does not make it moral.

@SamanthaM that's not the point I was making. I was making the point that in order to find out if someone is really who they say they are, you have to spend a majority of your free time with them, and that is really only possible if you live together

And with the high divorce rate it is good to be 100% sure you can sustain a marraige.

I have heard people say living together makes you more likely to break up, but I think those people went in with the wrong intentions

For example you don't move in together to only save money

@John O - That I'd agree with. Everything is fine up to the point of cohabitation.

That's what I'm saying, though. I, and many other young people like me spend well beyond 40 hours at work every week. I don't have time every day to spend with people who don't live in my house. Before I marry a woman, I want a trial period of at least a year under the same roof so that I can get to know them as well as possible. Spending two or three days together a week isn't nearly enough.

Please excuse the typos, I'm using voice to text

I'm gonna have to agree with John on this one

I don't see how it's immoral per say

I absolutely see how it's immoral, however, it's an unfortunate reality of the times we live in

Yeah the cost of a wedding and then buying a house combined is insane

Huh?

Weddings don't have to be expensive. Lots of fantastic ways to save.

At least where I live if you want a good wedding its probably at least 15k, then if you want a house in a good town/neighborhood its at least 300k

My parents got married in a park for next to nothing

yeah how do we avoid the wedding ((()))

Everyone has their own preference, but I would like my friends and family to be there.

@SamanthaM again, I just want to stress that you are correct, cohabitating is immoral, I just don't see a way around it

Major cost is the reception. Holding it at someone's home is a great way to save on that expense.

Pretty sure the wedding is expensive as *you* make it

unless you need a church or what not for religious stuffs

@John O - It's tough. Sin in the modern world is almost unavoidable.

Im glad ive found people who agree that living together isnt wholesome

redpill me on how it's a sin

I need to start going to Church again

@Deleted User because it leads to premarital sex

Some couples who live together are basically married but without the formality

*most

eh, I guess I can see that

Putting yourself in situations where someone you love is sleeping right next to you = premarital sex

Which is avoidable

I don't know, man, if I'm living with a girl, I'm not going to pull the fifties married couple different bed shit

that was only in movies

if youre married, I think youre allowed to

I know. I was just pointing out an example

Ignoring the religious aspect, this article points out some detrimental statistics concerning cohabitation. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mylordandmyblog.wordpress.com/2009/02/24/seven-reasons-why-living-together-before-marriage-is-not-a-good-idea/amp/

ok thanks

@SamanthaM All of the things he mentions are correlations but I see no proof that living together causes those problems. People who live together do so for many reasons. Some have a more liberal attitude regarding relationships and are therefore more likely to divorce. But that doesn't mean living together causes divorce. Or any of the other problems like violence or alcohol problems.

It's not necessarily *living together.* It's *living together before marriage.* Marriage is a a responsibility, like anything else. What the results are pointing to is that people who do not take this responsibility seriously are more likely to be irresponsible in other matters.

I was also thinking that people on the lower rungs of society are more likely to cohabitate for economic reasons

so just by shear numbers of the type of people who cohabitate first can add to those numbers

if that made sense

I agree with the general perception that, if a woman lives together with a man, doesn't marry him and then tries to continue dating she is seen as sullied, in the trad worldview at least.

@SamanthaM Exactly. That's correlation, not causality. If a responsible couple decides to live together without being married for whatever reason, they won't become more likely to have negative consequences just for that reason. The same as just because irresponsible couple gets married, doesn't mean they will stop drinking or being irresponsible.

One piece of advice gentlemen. If you break up with a girl, make her a complete stranger. No contact. Delete on line photos immediately. Delete her contact information and look forward completely. In addition once you get serious with a woman, drop all female friends. Don’t ever allow yourself to be in a room alone with another woman, even at work if you can.

^^^^

What would have happened to the couples who struggled with such problems that the article mentions if they got married and then lived together?

you have to work them out because you have a preexisting bilateral commitment to do so

I wonder why the mod had to issue that announcement. Was there a problem in the chat?

@Deleted User I learned that lesson the hard way.

@Rick there was an article about "female hypergamy" posted that I removed. I made the announcement to make sure everyone is on the same page that we are here to help IE members and not to lament the status (accurately or not) of dating today.

@ThisIsChris ha. ok. I thought it be something like that.

If there is one piece of advice that I can offer my fellow goyim it is to never marry a girl for whom you have to compromise on your principles for. That will never work. Take it from someone who is redpilled and married to someone who isn't. It's rough. It's almost as bad has having different religions.

I got so incredibly lucky. I sat down with my now fiance about the JQ and race realism and all of it and she agreed with me

@Patient Zero What lesson did you learn?

To forget a girl when she ghosts you.

Never go back.

If it didn't work the first time, their is a reason for that.

I was especially vulnerable because I am far too trusting and hate being single.

It's understandable. do you think you would ever make that mistake again or have you outgrown that?

Well, I'm getting married in June, so hopefully I wont have to be in that situation again

But I think I outgrew the negative side of that for the most part.

Bros I hate to disagree but as a man being red pilled you absolutely do not have to have a woman whom is. While my wife is smart enough to see most of the bs going on in society today she doesn't involve her self with it. My wife is a total normie and that is perfectly fine. She is concerned with our kids and our house. She has no reason to be politically involved and that is perfectly fine. She knows my opinions and agrees with me but she doesn't have even the slightest itch to be concerned with this stuff. We have been married for 12 years and together for 15.

Perhaps I should clarify. My Fiance is apolitical. She happily agrees with my points and cares about other things. I very much enjoy it this way.

^ sounds good.
As long as she shares your morales and values that's what means the most.

Completely agree

I find most woman are that way unless they get pushed into it.

My wife is pretty apolitical. She definitely leans towards disagreement with me, but she is mostly indifferent.

But that indifference bothers me. It might be what others want, but it bothers me.

I get that, but back when women were women and men were men, it wasn't a problem.

Perhaps.

@Patient Zero I’ve made the mistake too, and I’ve watched several of my friends doing the same thing. That’s why I always stress that protocol now.

@JesseJames my wife is not red pilled either but she stays at home and takes care of our four kids, which was my top priority. Having a family unit is more important to me than having a red pilled wife. She doesn’t even think about politics anyways and votes republican because I tell her to.

Isn't that just a better system in general?

I'm so glad I found that. I know a lot of the younger guys in this movement are having a lot of trouble finding a girl who can at least be unbrainwashed or isn't and ideologue.

@Patient Zero once you have kids most women focus on that and the politics and philosophy no longer matter to them. They just need to fill their time up with child rearing to get their head right.

Tis a gift. One I respect.

@Deleted User you and I are on the same level my friend.

@JesseJames cheers to that sir. We’re on to something.

@Rick when you say compromise your principals, are you taking about any specific principals? Or morals and values in general

@Pat-MA I guess I compromised all around. I was not as selective as I should have been. My standards were too low. I settled. I have learned that you are better off being alone than with someone you aren't compatible with or head over heels in love with. It makes you feel trapped. No matter how anguishing loneliness is, being stuck in a relationship with someone you aren't happy with is worse. Curing loneliness is much easier than getting out of a bad relationship.