versterven

Discord ID: 371122710593536003


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stalin was a great man

how can you save the world without it

.agree

2018-03-26 09:18:45 UTC [Sparta #general]  

guns aren't banned in cuba lol

2018-03-26 09:20:23 UTC [Sparta #general]  

cuba's private gun ownership rate is low but it's still higher than about 74 countries

2018-03-26 10:08:16 UTC [Sparta #general]  

juan peron was a true radical centrist

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372507611284766722/427770756500553738/juanperonradicalcentrist1.png

2018-04-12 23:19:37 UTC [Sparta #general]  

his analysis of the indian situation is utterly facile, like everything he tries to talk about

2018-04-12 23:21:51 UTC [Sparta #general]  

no he needs to stop being an idiot

2018-04-12 23:22:43 UTC [Sparta #general]  

he needs to examine the specific policy changes that led to the shift we have seen in India's economy since the early 90's and their effects

2018-04-12 23:23:09 UTC [Sparta #general]  

especially as you could provide strong counterexamples

2018-04-12 23:23:28 UTC [Sparta #general]  

like with Japan growing rapidly under heavy state intervention and experiencing anemic growth after liberalization

2018-04-12 23:24:29 UTC [Sparta #general]  

or how in Chile poverty skyrocketed and growth was stagnant during Pinochet's administration and after his laissez faire policies were scaled back by the succession of center left governments that came after Chile started growing and poverty started dropping

2018-04-12 23:25:03 UTC [Sparta #general]  

or how most Russians are poorer today than they were 20 years ago under socialism

2018-04-12 23:25:48 UTC [Sparta #general]  

the specific reasons why India has grown is because of a change in trade policy and loosening of burdensome private sector regulations in an economy reliant on the private sector

2018-04-12 23:26:10 UTC [Sparta #general]  

they still pursue dirigiste policies to a degree

2018-04-12 23:36:34 UTC [Sparta #general]  

jordan peterson is so desperate to paint post-modernism and modern progressivism as being marxist

2018-04-12 23:37:16 UTC [Sparta #general]  

why do you think that

2018-04-12 23:37:23 UTC [Sparta #general]  

is it because of oppressor/oppressed memes

2018-04-12 23:38:15 UTC [Sparta #general]  

what does "application of Marxist theory to social structure" mean

2018-04-12 23:40:17 UTC [Sparta #general]  

you could do the same thing with early liberals who were an influence on marx's class theory

2018-04-12 23:40:34 UTC [Sparta #general]  

the core of what you're getting at is that an anlysis of power dynamics = marxism

2018-04-12 23:41:25 UTC [Sparta #general]  

which is silly, the core of marxism has to do with a materialist interpretation of historical development and the role class struggle plays in this development

2018-04-12 23:42:11 UTC [Sparta #general]  

i don't think superificial similarities between polemics constitutes these ideologies being the same

2018-04-12 23:44:19 UTC [Sparta #general]  

so when oldschool liberals like adolphe blanqui were writing about how there are two "classes", those who live by their own labor and oppressors who live on the labor of others

2018-04-12 23:44:33 UTC [Sparta #general]  

could you not just use the same example you have used with marxism and progressivism here

2018-04-12 23:44:45 UTC [Sparta #general]  

just replace the parasites with white men and those who live by their own labor with minorities

2018-04-12 23:45:14 UTC [Sparta #general]  

yes and adolphe blanqui was a classical liberal

2018-04-12 23:45:22 UTC [Sparta #general]  

many classical liberals had similar ideas

2018-04-12 23:45:28 UTC [Sparta #general]  

they were a big influence on marx

2018-04-12 23:48:15 UTC [Sparta #general]  

ideologies can evolve and marxism has evolved a lot

2018-04-12 23:48:40 UTC [Sparta #general]  

it is just that right wingers have not been able to demonstrate that modern progressivism and post-modernism as a whole represents an evolution of marxism

2018-04-12 23:49:12 UTC [Sparta #general]  

at least not anymore so than marxism would constitute an evolution of classical liberalism

2018-04-12 23:49:32 UTC [Sparta #general]  

what does that mean

2018-04-12 23:51:02 UTC [Sparta #general]  

how are intersectionality and feminism marxist

2018-04-12 23:51:11 UTC [Sparta #general]  

yeah marxist feminism is a thing

2018-04-12 23:51:15 UTC [Sparta #general]  

liberal feminism is also a thing

2018-04-12 23:51:27 UTC [Sparta #general]  

neither of these things make feminism as a whole marxist or liberal

2018-04-12 23:52:46 UTC [Sparta #general]  

who are some examples of prominent marxist feminists

2018-04-12 23:53:07 UTC [Sparta #general]  

angela davis is probably the most popular marxist feminist

2018-04-12 23:53:09 UTC [Sparta #general]  

that i am aware of

2018-04-12 23:54:16 UTC [Sparta #general]  

i don't think marxist feminists have the same reach of these sorts of rainbow capitalist feminists whose rhetoric has been taken on by third way politicians like clinton and trudeau

2018-04-12 23:55:28 UTC [Sparta #general]  

also on the professor comment i would like to point out that students tend to be more radical than their professors, the narrative that the radicalism of college students represents some sort of gramscian march through the institutions is not well substantiated imo

2018-04-12 23:55:35 UTC [Sparta #general]  

why though

2018-04-12 23:56:05 UTC [Sparta #general]  

like what

2018-04-12 23:57:02 UTC [Sparta #general]  

well first of all wealth redistribution isn't inherently marxist and marxism is not about "equality of outcome" and marx explicitly wrote that equality of outcome would not exist under socialism

2018-04-12 23:57:36 UTC [Sparta #general]  

i suppose a classless society would be more on the money, though this was something utopian socialists who were harshly criticized by marx advocated for as well

2018-04-12 23:59:03 UTC [Sparta #general]  

well marx criticized utopian socialists from a historical materialist perspective

2018-04-13 00:00:00 UTC [Sparta #general]  

sure and i mean liberals and fascists don't disagree on everything

2018-04-13 00:00:08 UTC [Sparta #general]  

liberalism and fascism are still distinct ideologies

2018-04-13 00:00:45 UTC [Sparta #general]  

i don't disagree with liberals on everything but i'm still opposed to liberalism

2018-04-13 00:01:07 UTC [Sparta #general]  

yeah but what i'm saying is that advocating for a classless society isn't inherently marxist

2018-04-13 00:02:30 UTC [Sparta #general]  

i usually just say socialist

2018-04-13 00:02:34 UTC [Sparta #general]  

without adjectives

2018-04-13 00:03:14 UTC [Sparta #general]  

well i'm not a progressive

2018-04-13 00:03:24 UTC [Sparta #general]  

but anyways

2018-04-13 00:04:08 UTC [Sparta #general]  

i do agree that there are progressives who are anti-capitalist and you could say there is overlap between progressives and marxists, however, would you say that the majority of "SJW" types are anti-capitalist or marxist?

2018-04-13 00:04:16 UTC [Sparta #general]  

answer that question before u go

2018-04-13 00:28:46 UTC [Sparta #general]  

actually pinochet was a communist

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372507611284766722/434147906241429504/chilepoverty1.PNG

2018-04-13 00:28:58 UTC [Sparta #general]  

because starvation = gommunism xD

2018-04-16 08:23:15 UTC [Sparta #general]  

i think steven crowder is aggressively ignorant and i would be surprised if he had a three digit iq

2018-04-17 05:53:44 UTC [Sparta #general]  

conscripting women is dumb

2018-04-17 08:51:56 UTC [Sparta #general]  

>pinochet fanboi memeing about communism and food

2018-04-17 08:51:59 UTC [Sparta #general]  

xd

2018-04-17 08:52:10 UTC [Sparta #general]  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372507611284766722/435724139098275840/chilepoverty1.PNG

2018-04-17 08:54:19 UTC [Sparta #general]  

meanwhile socialist countries actually have greater levels of food security at similar levels of development (along with pretty much all indicators for quality of life) ๐Ÿค”

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372507611284766722/435724683397169162/socialismcapitalismqolcomp.PNG

2018-04-17 09:04:26 UTC [Sparta #general]  

are you talking about the UMAPs or what

2018-04-17 09:06:06 UTC [Sparta #general]  

they were a form of alternative civilian service that hasn't been in use since 1968

2018-04-17 09:06:38 UTC [Sparta #general]  

countries like switzerland, austria, finland, and israel have alternative civilian service programs

2018-04-17 09:27:12 UTC [Sparta #general]  

how can you have newer stuff when there are only like two socialist countries now

2018-04-17 09:27:21 UTC [Sparta #general]  

i mean there are some edge cases you could argue

2018-04-17 09:27:40 UTC [Sparta #general]  

venezuela has a capitalist economy

2018-04-17 09:27:50 UTC [Sparta #general]  

and the "ask the people who lived under it" stuff is dumb

2018-04-17 09:28:05 UTC [Sparta #general]  

the soviet union and even stalin are held in high regard in russia, armenia, moldova

2018-04-17 09:28:17 UTC [Sparta #general]  

over 70% of hungarians said life under socialism was better

2018-04-17 09:28:21 UTC [Sparta #general]  

same with serbians

2018-04-17 09:28:33 UTC [Sparta #general]  

i'm sorry but capitalism isn't socialism

2018-04-17 09:28:50 UTC [Sparta #general]  

norway is closer to being a socialist country than venezuela

2018-04-17 09:29:39 UTC [Sparta #general]  

they are failing for similar reasons to why they did in the 80's

2018-04-17 09:29:56 UTC [Sparta #general]  

norway has a bigger public sector than venezuela

2018-04-17 09:30:10 UTC [Sparta #general]  

what do you mean they don't know any better

2018-04-17 09:30:29 UTC [Sparta #general]  

they literally lived under socialism and then lived under capitalism and liberalism for 15 years

2018-04-17 09:30:45 UTC [Sparta #general]  

scandinavian countries aren't socialist

2018-04-17 09:30:50 UTC [Sparta #general]  

and neither is venezuela

2018-04-17 09:30:54 UTC [Sparta #general]  

i agree mal

2018-04-17 09:31:05 UTC [Sparta #general]  

you can gave a large public sector within a capitalist economy

2018-04-17 09:31:27 UTC [Sparta #general]  

but by what metric could you consider venezuela to represent the collective ownership over the means of production and not norway

2018-04-17 09:32:43 UTC [Sparta #general]  

norway is closer because they have a bigger public sector, less of their labor force are employed in capitalist employer-employee relationships than in venezuela

2018-04-17 09:33:33 UTC [Sparta #general]  

why not

2018-04-17 09:33:42 UTC [Sparta #general]  

they've expropriated a very small portion of the private sector

2018-04-17 09:33:59 UTC [Sparta #general]  

in fact venezuela's public sector was bigger in 1997 before chavez was elected than in any year during his tenure

2018-04-17 09:34:19 UTC [Sparta #general]  

that's dumb as fuck

2018-04-17 09:35:09 UTC [Sparta #general]  

violating property rights in certain scenarios doesn't make them closer to being socialist, you have to look at the actual mode of production

2018-04-17 09:35:15 UTC [Sparta #general]  

it could be used as a way to move toward socialism

2018-04-17 09:35:31 UTC [Sparta #general]  

they are basically irrelevant

2018-04-17 09:35:43 UTC [Sparta #general]  

when you are describing the mode of production as it currently exists

2018-04-17 09:36:15 UTC [Sparta #general]  

by certain scenarios i mean they haven't like banned private property or expropriated the overwhelming majority of it

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