It's my understanding that socialism done goofed the whole country.

norway has a bigger public sector than venezuela

"said was better" means nothing when they don't know any better. The only way you can make healthcare under Socialism look good is with subjective opinions of citizens that never knew what good healthcare looked like.

what do you mean they don't know any better

they literally lived under socialism and then lived under capitalism and liberalism for 15 years

But bro, muh Scandinavian socialism!

scandinavian countries aren't socialist

having a large public sector does not make you socialist

and neither is venezuela

i agree mal

you can gave a large public sector within a capitalist economy

but by what metric could you consider venezuela to represent the collective ownership over the means of production and not norway

Norway has free market economy.

so why did you say norway was closer to venezuela to socialism, when that clearly isn't correct. Which one of those two countries are stealing capital from random companies, because they think they have the right to it?

norway is closer because they have a bigger public sector, less of their labor force are employed in capitalist employer-employee relationships than in venezuela

no, a larger public sector does not make norway closer than the country that steals capital.

why not

they've expropriated a very small portion of the private sector

any portion at all, makes them more socialist

in fact venezuela's public sector was bigger in 1997 before chavez was elected than in any year during his tenure

that's dumb as fuck

violating property rights in certain scenarios doesn't make them closer to being socialist, you have to look at the actual mode of production

it could be used as a way to move toward socialism

You're defending violent socialist policies, and saying they're less important to establishing whether or not a country is socialist, than the relative size of the public sector.

they are basically irrelevant

when you are describing the mode of production as it currently exists

so what are these "certain scenarios" that are exempt from your considerations?

by certain scenarios i mean they haven't like banned private property or expropriated the overwhelming majority of it

they have expropriated very specific things

in norway, it is allowed for a government to expropriate property, if a public road has been planned, but the owners have to be compensated

and a very small amount

so what

are the companies being compensated in venezuela?

it doesn't matter

didn't think so

of course it matters

it doesn't

okay

```
The Venezuelan government also set price controls in 2003 on around 400 basic foods in an effort according to the Washington Post, to "counter inflation and protect the poor", and in March 2009, they set minimum production quotas for 12 basic foods that were subject to price controls, including white rice, cooking oil, coffee, sugar, powdered milk, cheese, and tomato sauce.[45][46] However, these economic policies led higher inflation rates and caused more shortages which in turn hurt those in poverty.[9][47][48]```

not real socialism bro

are you implying that regulations = socialism or something