Message from @versterven

Discord ID: 434139221218033665


2018-04-12 23:49:12 UTC  

at least not anymore so than marxism would constitute an evolution of classical liberalism

2018-04-12 23:49:16 UTC  

they don't represent an evolution of marxism, they represent the subversion of marxism into western society.

2018-04-12 23:49:32 UTC  

what does that mean

2018-04-12 23:50:40 UTC  

modern progressives would almost never call themselves marxist, most of their teachers would neither, and most of their teachers would neither, the people who were the actual marxists in academia are long gone or very old, very few progressives would describe themselves as marxists, but tracing their ideology back leads to marxist roots, especially looking at intersectionality and feminism.

2018-04-12 23:51:02 UTC  

how are intersectionality and feminism marxist

2018-04-12 23:51:03 UTC  

There were even 2nd wave feminists who outright wrote that their ideology had a basis in marxism.

2018-04-12 23:51:11 UTC  

yeah marxist feminism is a thing

2018-04-12 23:51:15 UTC  

liberal feminism is also a thing

2018-04-12 23:51:27 UTC  

neither of these things make feminism as a whole marxist or liberal

2018-04-12 23:51:45 UTC  

and marxist feminism has become the dominant voice of feminism in the progressive movement.

2018-04-12 23:51:49 UTC  

I'm nto sayin it does

2018-04-12 23:51:59 UTC  

but one has overtaken the other

2018-04-12 23:52:25 UTC  

that's why even progressives will go after liberal feminists from time to time for "excluding transgenders".

2018-04-12 23:52:46 UTC  

who are some examples of prominent marxist feminists

2018-04-12 23:53:07 UTC  

angela davis is probably the most popular marxist feminist

2018-04-12 23:53:09 UTC  

that i am aware of

2018-04-12 23:53:43 UTC  

oh shit

2018-04-12 23:53:53 UTC  

literally gave you who you just said

2018-04-12 23:53:54 UTC  

lol

2018-04-12 23:54:16 UTC  

i don't think marxist feminists have the same reach of these sorts of rainbow capitalist feminists whose rhetoric has been taken on by third way politicians like clinton and trudeau

2018-04-12 23:55:10 UTC  

Also, like I said, many progressives do not understand that their ideology is somewhat marxist in similarity, but if you trace back it's ideological roots, that is where it leads.

2018-04-12 23:55:28 UTC  

also on the professor comment i would like to point out that students tend to be more radical than their professors, the narrative that the radicalism of college students represents some sort of gramscian march through the institutions is not well substantiated imo

2018-04-12 23:55:32 UTC  

<:gay:382982146249326612>
this is 1block from my house
https://pdxbillboardproject.com/about/

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372507611284766722/434139541327183883/20180412_165148.jpg

2018-04-12 23:55:35 UTC  

why though

2018-04-12 23:56:00 UTC  

Example: My sister is a full blown progessive, and says she is not a marxist, yet many of the ideas she espouses are blatantly marxist.

2018-04-12 23:56:05 UTC  

like what

2018-04-12 23:56:22 UTC  

classless society

2018-04-12 23:56:25 UTC  

equality of outcome

2018-04-12 23:56:32 UTC  

wealth redistribution

2018-04-12 23:56:35 UTC  

etc...

2018-04-12 23:56:56 UTC  

nice

2018-04-12 23:57:02 UTC  

well first of all wealth redistribution isn't inherently marxist and marxism is not about "equality of outcome" and marx explicitly wrote that equality of outcome would not exist under socialism

2018-04-12 23:57:36 UTC  

i suppose a classless society would be more on the money, though this was something utopian socialists who were harshly criticized by marx advocated for as well

2018-04-12 23:58:15 UTC  

and yes, she is also a utopian, which is surprising considering we read almost exactly the same books criticizing utopianism growing up.

2018-04-12 23:59:03 UTC  

well marx criticized utopian socialists from a historical materialist perspective

2018-04-12 23:59:39 UTC  

but you also said he supported classles society, so just because he criticized them doesn't mean he disagreed with them on everything, as you yourself stated.

2018-04-13 00:00:00 UTC  

sure and i mean liberals and fascists don't disagree on everything

2018-04-13 00:00:08 UTC  

liberalism and fascism are still distinct ideologies

2018-04-13 00:00:42 UTC  

sure, but the point is that marx still advocated for classless society, so saying he criticized other ideologies for other things is moot.

2018-04-13 00:00:45 UTC  

i don't disagree with liberals on everything but i'm still opposed to liberalism