It is more like a Facist-Oligarchy than a Democraty...

But you can't win them all!

bourgeois democracies are dictatorships of the capital

Yeah. Except in Ancapistan because there you have all the freedom you will ever need! Which is none.

But seriously I just think we should start a civilwar somewhere, like Italy or Greece. They have many commies...

starting a civil war would be putschist; the revolution is done with the people

and first we have to develop class consciousness with what we have

Of course, but there are already in that progress in Greece!

There are also many facists...

the people who become disappointed with Syriza goes to communist and anarchist groups for one side; or they become nazis

their hopes were rejected

the KKE has presence

I would not say that they will become Nazi, because that is a under group of facism, and a very specific one at that.

the golden dawn is there

Yep, and it's terrible.

But remember that Communism is the future!

@Arkras we have to do a tremendous effort for it. Its not so easy.

I know, but a little romanticism has never hurt anybody.

But Stalin say that Party can do absolutely everything. If its possible it will be done.

Stalin was a brutal dictator, and a crusher of minoraties. He was a monster.

That what you learn in a school?

I learned that Trotsky was the good guy

but Stalin has contributions in his works

No we only learn things about industry and Social democraty.

If they didn't speed up the production they'd have been invaded

@Arkras and where did you learn about monstrosity of a comrade Stalin?

My parents are libertarian Socialists, and that does not go well with Stalin...

I combine both

@Arkras Parents also have to know resources.

What u mean comrade?

@Arkras Did you know that under Stalin population actually grew?

Under Putin it was declining.

Yes but he displaced many ethnic minoraties , like tartars to sibiria and made them starve.

Under him alot of people did starve because of really bad planning.

Your type of socialism is based on morality, yes?

And his beard is not big enough.

Yes

That is the difference. Morality is idealism.

Old Jewish Stories are not a good replacement for science.

Throw away the morality.

Maybe, but if all humans needs to be equal then we cannot starve people.

Morality is the only thing that holds humanity together.

I can search resources telling other version about the tartars and famines; the important question here is if we can get part of his philosophy

and if the problems of the past can be solved now

There is also a practicality and love to people.

Morality is needed for uneducated, evil men who doesn't know how to behave by himself.

No it is not. It is a code that we are born with. Morality is human nature, and if one those not have it then one is close to be a physcopath.

I can tell you that my morality has changed, it isn't true

I enjoyed throwing rocks to pigeons when I was a child

Morality is a something on top of the material fundament.

Something extra

Addition to reality.

We there are many kinds morality, and one devolopes them as one grows up.

But there a underlinings human morality.

DO NOT COURSE HARM TO YOUR FELLOW HUMAN.

except if they are dicks.

What religion are you?

I'd tell you

Freelance Christian

Stalinist @ShadyMarxist

that I let my little gf because I was ashamed from the collective

it was seem as a bad thing and I couldn't stand it

I don't have this feeling now

@Arkras tell me more about it

I just study the Bible and make my own opinions about it.

For an exsample I don't believe a word of the old testament.

And I believe in Evolution.

@ShadyMarxist Are you there?

@Arkras What do you think of atheism?

@Blebleh I can see it's points, but it is just a sad way to look at life.

I wouldn't say so

I mean if there is no after life, there is only fear and sorrow.

I'm not scared nor sorrowed

I'd prefer being nothing

there is neither fear or sorrow

you don't think about it or feel it because you don't exist

@Arkras I've been in your position before. On the morality.

But the fear in life is the worst problem with atheism. @Blebleh

@ShadyMarxist 2 Sec.

@Arkras I'm alive and not in fear

If you believe in something you will maybe be rewarded in death, and even if that chance is 00,000001% then it is worth that belief.

@Arkras I found that abrahamic religions had philosophicalcontradictions and I rejected Christianity, even further; I'm glad that this authority doesn't exist... I wouldn't discard that there could be something unknown as there are many possibilities, but I don't know yet and I'm worried by what I can know and do now... other thing would mean being guided by deceivers or blind faith. Also as I said, I don't live in fear since if I die I wouldn't exist

why would I want to be rewarded in heaven, and who judges that?

What's the point in throwing away valuable time if there's only a small chance

Because you lose nothing if you believe in something, but you will maybe lose something if you don't.

I see that maybe to be highly unlikely

@Arkras It is better to do things without a reward. Are you a dog to get a reward? You should think only by yourself.

@Arkras That presupposes a God that must be destroyed by humans as it's evil; a God that values more in a reward for believing in him (and with effort) than what humans do

@Blebleh I think god just created us, and spends his time creating away in far away. I also think that we were not created directly by god, we are a work of evolution.

@Arkras Definition of communism in one word by Lenin is - Materialism.

But well i just think that we all should atleast be medium left.

So can't we talk about that?

@ShadyMarxist believing in morals does not make one a idealist

@Arkras then from another socdem is going to grow a new Fascist.

It all will come up together with maturity.

More authority with the same views

Fascism

But SD are capitalists?

@Arkras and you against revolutionary blood?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

believing in morals doesn't make one an idealist but its a pretty good chance that any given moralist is a massive idealist

@ShadyMarxist I donnu, what u mean?

liberation theology?

@Arkras Tell me about communism you imagine.

moralists tend to think their perceptions of justice will ultimately prevail because of their political work, which is pretty textbook idealism

@ShadyMarxist A world with equal money, rights, freedom of religion, complete freedom of expression, a strong state and a lot of communes.

@ShadyMarxist I could write an essay about it, but I don't have time for that.

@Arkras I thought nobody crazier than Russian Orthodox Communist. But you guys have them too.

@ShadyMarxist are you saying that i'm crazy? But anyway I just want a strong state that protects the freedoms and right of the people.

@Arkras is it a sect within some religion?

@ShadyMarxist what are you refering to?

@Arkras your situation.

@ShadyMarxist Go read this: http://isj.org.uk/marxism-and-ethics/

or anyone really

We can never have a communist society without proper ethic grounding

Antihumanists could disagree

Althusserian people

@AngryChekist ethic grounding shall not be in a form of morality.

@ShadyMarxist I'm a freelancer, yes I belong to the Folkekirke (Peopleschurch), but I believe in what I want to.

@Arkras No offense here, but I think your conception of communism is influenced by bourgeois propaganda when saying that it's about a strong state and equal money

@ShadyMarxist what does that even mean

@Blebleh I don't think so. It is what I want, and it what the communists in Denmark strive for, so I really have no choice.

I understand that it could be used to electoral publicity

but first we make a distinction between socialism as first stage, and communism as the last stage. State conceived as the monopoly of violence and the organization of a class to oppress another

strong state would be in socialism, in the first phase, to make the dictatorship of the proletariat; that would mean the workers over the capitalists

in communism there wouldn't be capitalists and state would wither away

@Blebleh Please don't say that you are a Ancom 😫

this is from marxism-leninism

Well I just role with what suits me!

and also, in socialism the principle is "to each according to his contribution"

only the private means of productions, aka enterprises are owned publicly; the personal property is yours and there isn't equality of money

although the socialization of the means makes more equality of money

because capitalists, who have a lot of money are expropriated

planning and so on

For an exsample I want people to live between 2000 US to around 5000 US.

I can see that the workers must own there workplace, but I think we also need regulations about how much you can make, and how much you minimum can make, because else we will get class division.

technically we can't get class division because the means are already owned by the workers and there's no market; but there could be parasitism between the same workers

I agree with you in this

@Blebleh Tanx

what don't you like about ancoms?

@Blebleh We need centralplanning and a taxsystem, to have a working society.

arkras?

there's libertarian socialism

@Arkras what do you think about anarchist?

are you in support of wagelabour?

it could be compatible; I agree with central planning

One at a time please.

Wage labour isnt communist

@ShadyMarxist A noble concept but there are just too many human for it to be a reality.

wage labour conceived as submission to capitalists?

or as a collective wage system?

Wage labour is shit, and is a part of the problem.

conceived as post-scarcity, I think that it'll take a lot of time to reach that, if we do it

and I think that classical marxists wouldn't imagine the contribution of cybernetics today

@Blebleh We just need to expand apound what Marx gave us. It is one of the founding features of Marxism.

yes

@Arkras Did you read Lunacharski, Bogdanov?

and about taxes, they could be low under a socialist state when the enterprises already have profit and they have excesses

@ShadyMarxist No i've not, sorry i've actually not read that much. I base my knowledge on forums, videos, word of mouth and politicians.

@Arkras They tried to do something like your religion but Lenin convinced them to stop.

@ShadyMarxist Okay, but i gotta go to bed now. I've been awake in about 20 hours, so i'm tried now. Goodnight!

@Blebleh Is Communism popular in Spain?

@Arkras No, socialdemocracy

Okay, but it is better than nothing right? @Blebleh

Yes but it's limited

Yeah when you have Social Democracy, things goes so slow that it begins to go the wrong way again.

@Blebleh

Guys

I found a girlfriend

I'm so happy

🤔

nerd

stfu

thats pretty gay bro

<@141012650200006656> fuck you

Someone please kick this guy

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/242/548/f0f.jpg

<:an:312037610547707905>

<@141012650200006656>

<@141012650200006656>

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<@141012650200006656>

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<@141012650200006656> <@141012650200006656>

<@141012650200006656>

<@141012650200006656>

<@141012650200006656>

<@141012650200006656>

<@141012650200006656>

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Someone PM me when this asshat is done so I can unmute this server

@mater06 @everyone

Why we need mods in a nutshell

Good shit tbh

Fuck off /pol/

@Groucho Marx

Is the manchild gone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7mbwo4rSFU

🇳 🇴 🇺

@Groucho Marx ye writen' a feckin book

@Deleted User I am not a Marxist-Leninist. I shouldn't have to defend the USSR in it's entirety. You are straw manning most of the left wing and are purposely misrepresenting the left wing and Marxist-Leninist. The Holodomor did happen but it didn't kill nearly as many as the west says. Furthermore, by the same standards it can be said that Capitalism is responsible for the malnourishment of 793 million in 2015 according to the Food and Agricultural Agency of the United Nations. That number is a far greater evil then Stalin even though I fucking hate Stalin and don't agree with Mao. Capitalism is objectively worse. You are actively also defending racism. Racism has no real objective basis on which to say what makes somebody part of what race. For example, in the US the Irish weren't considered white for a long time. Fascism is the bourgeoise's last defense against the revolution. Under the Soviet Union people had higher incomes, there was less income inequality and people had a better standard of living.

If you want to challenge the entire left wing your going to need to try to actually make some arguments which aren't horribly shortsighted or fallacious. You are also going to need theoretical and objective backing of which you and /pol/tards don't have any.

damn

Collectivism kills in any form these distinctions like "anarchism" and "autoritarian socailism" are irrelevant they are tools used to destroy and they crumble on their own.

Eric

Eric ericson

@Deleted User fagbpy

Where is most of the poverty located in

@Groucho Marx

"The passion for destruction is a creative passion" - Mikhail Bakunin. The whole point of being to the left is to destroy capitalism and replace it with something better. The left wing has various solutions and proposals to overcome capitalism and usher in a new mode of production and of society. Furthermore, you said that collectivism is all the same but this is incorrect because although all true left wingers want to usher in a post-capitalist age all the branches of leftism vary in their solutions to these issues which makes them essentially different.

Yet again you are purposely mischaracterizing the entirety of Leftism

Will never happen

Capitalism hijacked leftism

"replace it with something better" HAHAHA not in a million years, leftist countries will never last and will never prosper

China is actually developing a living of standard for once

Thanks to (((capitalism (((((

Standard of living

<:anco:312054502679248896>

<:af:312037249166606337>

Unrestrained capitalism is dangerous but abolishing private property, destroying religion and completely reshaping a nation's culture is much worse.

Eric Clanton

An cap is autism

tbqh

I am an Anarcho-Syndicalist. Attacking China or other ML states doesn't negate the entirety of leftism.

Has Anarcho-Syndicalism ever actually worked for any serious period of time?

Le nothing wrong with corporatism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9r6U8_-2os

when you outnumber the enemy by such a disparaging margin but think you can still brag about winning like it was a genuine accomplishment

Reds sure love their delusions of grandeure

Anarcho-Syndicalism has only had one revolution because industrialization is a relatively new phenomena. But, the same can also be said for Fascism.

r we being spammed

yes

*clutches pearls* oh heavens

Fascism has only existed for a short time period

@Groucho Marx how well did that revolution go?

>basing political theories on outcome assessments

Pretty well actually until the MLs came in with their tankie bullshit and shot everybody.

>not even knowing the outcomes irk

Irl dammit

I FUCKED UP I FAILED YOU LENIN

Then Franco killed a lot of the other anarcho syndicalist

God I hate u autists

Nothing wrong with capitalism

I'm enjoying my millions

So they tried to make a society without authority and money but in the end had a dysfuntional state with authority and money?

.Bitcoin Gang !@