Discord ID: 308950154222895104

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2017-09-04 11:01:38 UTC

Then a socialist economic organisation is better. At least there you get to keep the fruits of your labor and have an equal say in production management.

2017-09-04 11:03:12 UTC

is the toothbrush sharing joke actually a joke

2017-09-04 11:03:13 UTC

How do you keep the fruits of your labor in socialism?

2017-09-04 11:03:18 UTC

I do not believe in any kind of property.

2017-09-04 11:03:30 UTC

black people should be property

2017-09-04 11:03:40 UTC

but because i'm a commie they should be collectively owned

2017-09-04 11:03:43 UTC

2017-09-04 11:03:48 UTC

Because when you produce something you either keep it or are paid vouchers equivolent to the value produced

2017-09-04 11:04:03 UTC

so money?

2017-09-04 11:04:05 UTC


2017-09-04 11:04:13 UTC

They do not circulate and are non accumulative

2017-09-04 11:04:15 UTC

Keep it?

2017-09-04 11:04:18 UTC

What do you do with it?

2017-09-04 11:04:29 UTC

What vouchers for what?

2017-09-04 11:04:31 UTC

you get to have as many sneakers as you want

2017-09-04 11:04:35 UTC

I do not think you produce, things are just produced.

2017-09-04 11:04:45 UTC

Well if you make a chair

Its your chair now

2017-09-04 11:04:58 UTC

I disagree.

2017-09-04 11:05:00 UTC

Seems like something that ends after you have about 5 chairs

2017-09-04 11:05:20 UTC

And thats why you then turn them in to the federation or the collective and take your vouchers so you can buy other things

2017-09-04 11:05:51 UTC

How many chair vouchers for a car?

2017-09-04 11:06:11 UTC

Idk man, if you produce the value equivolent to a car but in chairs

2017-09-04 11:06:40 UTC

So you'd have to make your own chair?

2017-09-04 11:06:50 UTC

if you make chairs i guess

2017-09-04 11:07:01 UTC

A chair is made. Now there is a chair. That is the end of it. But a chair is also firewood. It can be lots of things. Ownership is a tyranny over utility of objects.

2017-09-04 11:07:25 UTC

I think if I produce a chair I should be able to keep it since it is a result of my labor

2017-09-04 11:07:39 UTC

What I want to know from socialists is how they plan on having innovation, who gets to be the inventors?

2017-09-04 11:07:40 UTC

Oh boy.

2017-09-04 11:07:52 UTC


2017-09-04 11:08:06 UTC

Im not sure what that question means

2017-09-04 11:08:17 UTC

If you're provided with chairs, which you presumably would

2017-09-04 11:08:20 UTC

How do new products get made

2017-09-04 11:08:22 UTC

What is the point of making your own chair

2017-09-04 11:08:22 UTC

If someone has a good idea then theyll put it forward

2017-09-04 11:08:24 UTC

Who invents the iphone?

2017-09-04 11:08:36 UTC

Who decides what is a good idea?

2017-09-04 11:08:54 UTC

It implies that without private ownership, co-operation is impossible. Which is false.

2017-09-04 11:09:00 UTC

The same people that decide whether something is a good idea in a market..


2017-09-04 11:09:28 UTC

Yes but if everything is shared there are only some who gets to make a product right?

2017-09-04 11:09:43 UTC

Theres no intellectual property so anyone can make whatever they want

2017-09-04 11:10:40 UTC

What if someone's a terrible inventor, does he starve?

2017-09-04 11:11:15 UTC

Youre still maintaning a capitalist lens through the way you are viewing socialism

2017-09-04 11:11:31 UTC

just asking questions

2017-09-04 11:11:44 UTC

If a collective workplace needs some innovation, they will do everything they can to make it happen

2017-09-04 11:12:14 UTC

Its pretty unlikely that people would have 1 role in their workplace

2017-09-04 11:12:39 UTC

I don't know, many people can only fulfill one role

2017-09-04 11:14:24 UTC

Everyone has an equal say in their workplace, and nobody lives as an inventor or investor or things like that because we abolish capital accumulation and (probably) traditional markets

2017-09-04 11:14:38 UTC

when the world revolution succeds, will the world be divided by the forms of socialism?

2017-09-04 11:14:43 UTC

Smash the workplace!

2017-09-04 11:14:54 UTC

But what if I have an idea for a new product but the people in the workplace always shoot it down?

2017-09-04 11:14:57 UTC

before it gets made

2017-09-04 11:15:02 UTC
2017-09-04 11:15:08 UTC

That's how it's been before

2017-09-04 11:15:18 UTC

Well that same thing happens now except with the market @Timo)))

2017-09-04 11:15:26 UTC

So far what has worked best is the anarchist method

2017-09-04 11:15:27 UTC

If people dont want things they wont make it

2017-09-04 11:15:43 UTC

Well now you can go to a capitalist who will finance your product, is that still a thing in socialism?

2017-09-04 11:15:43 UTC

for example: titoism in the balkans, maosim in mainland china, etcetc

2017-09-04 11:16:13 UTC

Socialism removes the capitalist class.

2017-09-04 11:16:38 UTC

So I'm fucked then if I'm in a workplace of people who don't want to listen to my ideas?

2017-09-04 11:16:51 UTC

Youre fucked now if your boss doesnt listen to your ideas

2017-09-04 11:17:04 UTC

Not really, venture capitalism is a thing

2017-09-04 11:17:17 UTC

We dont think worker ownership is the perfect model, we view it to be better than the current state

2017-09-04 11:17:28 UTC

Being able to work and save money and then go for my product I can do now

2017-09-04 11:17:43 UTC

Can't do that with vouchers right?

2017-09-04 11:17:52 UTC

Revolutionary Anarchism has no foreseeable end. Revisionist bourgeois tendencies threaten continuously.

2017-09-04 11:18:20 UTC

Vouchers shouldnt even really be compared to money since they exist only to ration resources and distribute value according to value that was already produced.

2017-09-04 11:18:28 UTC

They are destroyed upon purchase

2017-09-04 11:18:52 UTC

right, so then I can never make my new product without convincing the people in my workplace?

2017-09-04 11:19:19 UTC

Can you give me a scenario?

2017-09-04 11:19:30 UTC

I need to visualize this

2017-09-04 11:19:37 UTC

sure give me a sec

2017-09-04 11:20:28 UTC

Let's say hybrid cars

2017-09-04 11:20:32 UTC

Or electric cars

2017-09-04 11:20:45 UTC

The old guard would not want it, they want to stick to diesel

2017-09-04 11:20:54 UTC

My idea gets shut down all the time

2017-09-04 11:21:00 UTC

How do I go further?

2017-09-04 11:21:07 UTC

Labour aristocracy. This is why this makes me nervous.

2017-09-04 11:22:54 UTC


If youve already explained the ins and outs of the idea at the general meeting but people arent really warming up to the idea then its probably just not something that people want. You could also go to a local communal meeting and give the idea there I suppose. This might be a bit saddening but its not like you would lose your position in the workplace

2017-09-04 11:23:36 UTC

The people never had a say in if my product was a good idea, only the people in the workplace

2017-09-04 11:23:55 UTC

Maybe I have a niche market

2017-09-04 11:24:33 UTC

Well assuming we have abolished market exchange that really wouldnt matter. If the place you work at has the tools to make the car then you could make one for yourself.

2017-09-04 11:24:58 UTC

Making an electric car by myself is not realistic tbh

2017-09-04 11:25:21 UTC

Not without having the money (or time whatever) for research and development first

2017-09-04 11:25:54 UTC


2017-09-04 11:26:07 UTC

But its just like capitalism, if people dont want it then it wont get made

2017-09-04 11:26:47 UTC

It is worse. Profit does not always align with progress.

2017-09-04 11:26:49 UTC

But with capitalism you only have to convince some rich guy or crowdfund on the internet

2017-09-04 11:27:14 UTC

Not a guarantee for success but more options for sure

2017-09-04 11:27:17 UTC

Yeah but you still theoretically have to fill a market demand right?

2017-09-04 11:27:35 UTC

Demand is not rational, either.

2017-09-04 11:27:51 UTC

Right, but many people often don't know what they want until they see it

2017-09-04 11:28:09 UTC

Ford said that if he gave the people what they wanted he'd invent a faster horse.

2017-09-04 11:28:46 UTC

Generally its the opposite of that

2017-09-04 11:28:55 UTC

Rightlibs hate monopolies

2017-09-04 11:29:32 UTC

government intervention creates monopolies too

2017-09-04 11:29:33 UTC

Well yeah but they dont believe that happens

2017-09-04 11:29:53 UTC

Look who lobbies for a higher minimum wage

2017-09-04 11:29:58 UTC

It's not the small businesses

2017-09-04 11:30:34 UTC

Anyway, after the revolution against state, I am going after the syndicates. Night lads.

2017-09-04 11:31:17 UTC

pls dont hurt my syndicates

2017-09-04 11:59:10 UTC

@Timo))) anybody gets to be an inventor

2017-09-04 12:33:44 UTC

Right, so if 5 million people want to create a new smartphone, how would that go?

2017-09-04 12:36:04 UTC

And what would be the cost of failing to make a good product?

2017-09-04 12:53:21 UTC

@Timo))) anybody can work on a product.

2017-09-04 12:53:38 UTC

Cost is not important.

2017-09-04 12:54:10 UTC

only people's creativity matters.

2017-09-04 12:55:03 UTC

Creating things people evolve.

2017-09-04 12:55:14 UTC

People matter.

2017-09-04 12:55:19 UTC

Product don't.

2017-09-04 12:57:16 UTC

Best product is people.

2017-09-04 12:57:42 UTC

Smartphones are trash. They come and go.

2017-09-04 12:59:30 UTC

I'm not sure I've ever seen a good smartphone. I wonder if it is an oxymoron

2017-09-04 13:06:35 UTC

It would be worse if you never saw a good man.

2017-09-04 13:07:56 UTC

it would, but I'm not sure how much that has to do with eachother

2017-09-04 13:08:23 UTC

Smartphones are useful.

2017-09-04 13:08:46 UTC

But not important.

2017-09-04 13:14:42 UTC

Right but you'd have to give people who want to make a new smartphone the tools to make them

2017-09-04 13:14:45 UTC

2017-09-04 13:14:59 UTC

who's MLKP?

2017-09-04 13:15:01 UTC

You'd then send out 5 million peoples worth of stuff to them?

2017-09-04 13:15:25 UTC

@Timo))) sent out? Are they not free to take it?

2017-09-04 13:15:44 UTC

From where?

2017-09-04 13:15:54 UTC

Straight from a factory?

2017-09-04 13:17:02 UTC

From anywhere.

2017-09-04 13:17:16 UTC

From factories too.

2017-09-04 13:17:42 UTC

Is there a limit to what they can take?

2017-09-04 13:18:11 UTC

@Sampuka Turkish

2017-09-04 13:18:28 UTC

@Timo))) There is always a limit.

2017-09-04 13:20:06 UTC

So there could be a case where you could say no, there are too many people designing smartphones right now

2017-09-04 13:20:37 UTC

@Timo))) Do you need parts to design smartphone?

2017-09-04 13:21:02 UTC

If you want to test it yes

2017-09-04 13:21:09 UTC

<:dynoSuccess:314691591484866560> ***Shapeshifting Child Molester#6221 has been warned.***

2017-09-04 13:21:21 UTC

Does everyone get to test their products or does someone decide which are worthy of it?

2017-09-04 13:22:21 UTC

@Timo))) can't you test a public property you fool?

2017-09-04 13:22:50 UTC

I don't understand that sentence

2017-09-04 13:23:20 UTC

Is there a necessity to possess privately a part of the phone to test it?

2017-09-04 13:24:14 UTC

Well if you're the one making it yes you should at least have the means to make the product

2017-09-04 13:24:27 UTC

What happens after you succeed and ''sell'' it is another thing

2017-09-04 13:24:34 UTC

@Timo))) you have to have it? It can't be public?

2017-09-04 13:24:48 UTC

How do you publicly make your own idea of a smartphone?

2017-09-04 13:25:01 UTC

Doesn't sound like what you sold it, as everyone can be an inventor

2017-09-04 13:25:04 UTC

@Timo))) same way you do it privately

2017-09-04 13:25:30 UTC

Not really, making it privately means I get to make what I design as I thought of it

2017-09-04 13:25:35 UTC

How would you do it publicly?

2017-09-04 13:25:54 UTC

Like internet was made publicly and like PC was made

2017-09-04 13:26:10 UTC

Phones are no different

2017-09-04 13:26:35 UTC

Internet made publicly?

2017-09-04 13:26:42 UTC

Thought that was the government

2017-09-04 13:26:54 UTC

@Timo))) It was designed as a military USA program

2017-09-04 13:26:59 UTC


2017-09-04 13:27:05 UTC

Same way

2017-09-04 13:27:28 UTC

And how would you go about making a phone that way

2017-09-04 13:27:36 UTC

Do you need to be a part of the army?

2017-09-04 13:27:40 UTC

If you can make PC that way

2017-09-04 13:27:45 UTC

You can make a phone

2017-09-04 13:28:14 UTC

Right, but be more concrete, I want to make a phone publicly, how would that go?

2017-09-04 13:28:25 UTC

I think I answered how it is done. Now I have no interest in you.

2017-09-04 13:28:34 UTC

Doesn't sound like it

2017-09-04 13:28:38 UTC


2017-09-04 13:30:20 UTC

Just you talking about it sounds like bureaucratic hell

2017-09-04 13:30:59 UTC

I've had 100+ hours of talk with better libertarian.

2017-09-04 13:31:11 UTC

Is not interesting.

2017-09-04 13:31:26 UTC

Socialist don't like talking about their concrete society

2017-09-04 14:34:48 UTC

@Timo))) read a book about an actual proposed socialist society

2017-09-04 14:34:58 UTC

fx: Towards a New Socialism

2017-09-04 14:35:39 UTC


2017-09-04 14:55:51 UTC

Right, I'm trying out war thunder

2017-09-04 15:22:04 UTC

Soviet Tree

2017-09-04 15:22:46 UTC

Germs don't get heavy tanks until tier 3 and you'll be screaming "muh russian bias" until then

>read a book
Literally every argument from illiterate communiggers

2017-09-04 17:47:49 UTC

I'm on the British team

2017-09-04 18:13:55 UTC


2017-09-04 18:39:50 UTC


2017-09-04 19:34:07 UTC

whats the difference between this and the other leftypol discord?

2017-09-04 19:40:11 UTC

@Kloud There are lots of right wing people here, and the admins will not ban them or force them to be quiet.

2017-09-04 19:40:20 UTC

Also no roles.

2017-09-04 19:41:46 UTC

@Kloud What do you mean other leftypol discord? there is no official leftypol

2017-09-04 19:41:55 UTC


2017-09-04 19:43:55 UTC

wew what cancer

2017-09-04 19:44:01 UTC

Kinda wish more servers were open to all sides, because it just becomes an echo chamber of bs after a while.

2017-09-04 19:58:35 UTC

Rip Stasi

2017-09-04 19:59:17 UTC

@Sampuka He probs means the one which was headed by Snow, this one splitted from.

2017-09-04 20:00:49 UTC

Yo, I'm recruiting to a new leftist server. Join if you want

2017-09-04 21:04:28 UTC

the server is racist against nazbols

2017-09-04 21:04:32 UTC

dont join

2017-09-04 21:04:40 UTC

its run by class traitors

2017-09-04 21:05:34 UTC

k ty for warnings

2017-09-04 21:05:53 UTC

no problem comrade

2017-09-04 21:07:05 UTC

all hail glorious nazbol

2017-09-04 21:07:21 UTC

oy vey, the nazi kicked me for being a nazbol

2017-09-04 21:07:33 UTC

I've been shoahed

2017-09-04 21:10:34 UTC

actually the owner is the real fascist for kicking me

2017-09-04 21:36:25 UTC

2017-09-04 21:38:36 UTC


2017-09-04 21:38:42 UTC

>asia and europe half the world

2017-09-04 21:38:54 UTC

nice capitalist propaganda

2017-09-04 21:39:07 UTC

racist as fuck too btw

2017-09-04 21:42:12 UTC

racist towards the antarticans

2017-09-04 21:42:24 UTC

The true superpower of the world

2017-09-04 21:43:09 UTC

antarticans are the only true worker

2017-09-04 21:43:54 UTC

Is pony <:RDsoaweswome:234400684919750656> for sexual πŸ†?

2017-09-04 21:47:39 UTC

@Chalin do you care?

2017-09-04 21:47:51 UTC

I'm asking for a friend

2017-09-04 21:47:55 UTC


2017-09-04 21:50:13 UTC

At least we can all agree that anarchocapitalism is the way forward

2017-09-04 21:50:17 UTC


2017-09-04 21:51:48 UTC


2017-09-04 21:51:56 UTC

Stalinism is

2017-09-04 21:52:13 UTC

It's the only Marxist ideology to take root in a significant country

2017-09-04 21:52:31 UTC

It failed because weak leaders took charge

2017-09-04 21:53:57 UTC

And let the union stray from true stalinism

2017-09-04 21:54:55 UTC

2017-09-04 21:55:04 UTC

2017-09-04 22:00:47 UTC

NO 🚫 TRUMP <:happytrump:287338722066694144>
NO 🚫 KKK <:moonman:283655821190234122>
NO 🚫 FASCIST USA <:antiracist:349804209706762254>

2017-09-04 22:01:39 UTC

Your avatar is confusing me.

2017-09-04 22:03:11 UTC


2017-09-04 22:03:15 UTC


2017-09-04 22:05:25 UTC

Pepe is a shit meme.

2017-09-04 22:06:18 UTC

ur a shit meme

2017-09-04 22:15:19 UTC

@Deleted User
>racist as fuck too btw
There's no way this isn't satire

2017-09-04 22:15:59 UTC

are you a western imperialist?

2017-09-04 22:16:41 UTC

if you consider asian and europe "half of the world" you ignore africa and america

2017-09-04 22:16:56 UTC

also aussies (Even tho most of them are invaders)

2017-09-04 22:46:21 UTC

isn't that gmagik

2017-09-04 22:46:49 UTC


2017-09-04 22:50:38 UTC

2017-09-04 23:42:23 UTC

@Deleted User I'm glad government gets a difference between anarchokids and more organized mature people.

2017-09-04 23:42:29 UTC


2017-09-05 00:04:17 UTC

@Deleted User Damm the antifag in that picture looks awful

2017-09-05 00:29:14 UTC
2017-09-05 00:29:31 UTC

2017-09-05 00:29:40 UTC

2017-09-05 00:36:33 UTC


2017-09-05 00:37:42 UTC

2017-09-05 02:40:46 UTC

2017-09-05 03:22:17 UTC

2017-09-05 03:56:35 UTC

>american "antifa"

2017-09-05 03:56:47 UTC

>as anything american

2017-09-05 04:36:54 UTC

@Deleted User *Bourgeois reaction intensifies.*

2017-09-05 05:12:16 UTC

How to organise, comrades?

2017-09-05 05:16:41 UTC

Is the world already organised, and the role of revolutionaries is just to know when and how to 'push the button'?

752,937 total messages. Viewing 250 per page.
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