@☩ ✠ Valka ✠ ☩
I'm a staunchly conservative vegan 🤔

I don't know if climate change is legit. Probably not. But I still can't justify torturing lesser beings for my own selfish pleasure. Nor can I accept the toll double bacon cheeseburgers have on human health.

REEEEE steak is bad for you too.

no, its not the protein that's bad by itself

But I mean.. this fake meat stuff is little better. We should focus our diets on whole unprocessed plant foods.

We're just not that different physiologically from every other great ape. Sure we can stomach cooked meat, and it for sure helped us survive as a dense calorie source. But that doesn't mean its optimal for human health.

both fiber consumption and fruit consumption are inversely correlated with mortality risk.

well yeah

but for me, if we can't find a benefit for humans (humans come first), then it becomes redundant to cause mass suffering of lesser beings

I'm on the fence about fish, its moreso the mercury, PCBs and dioxins from contaminated waters

fish aren't as concious as cows, pigs, ect.

well I wouldnt go that far lol

See I eat honey because you're not gonna convince me that a bee experiences suffering in the same way a dog does

we have to draw the line somewhere

but I think when it comes to human health, fiber, folate, potassium, vitamin C, vitamin A, phytonutrients ect. are all extremely important

Thus, most people who shift from SAD to plant based experience massive shifts in blood pressure, cholesterol, ect.

yeah you'll be healthy if you do that

see refined carbs spike insuline and glucose, but low GI carbs have a stabalizing effect on blood sugar

I can eat a 300 calory can of beans in the morning and be full until 7:00 at night

its powerful stuff.

the fiber and water of the food, the low caloric density

I dropped 50 lbs

yeah so you must fo chicken breast

vegans have to do tempeh, tofu, beans, lentils

there's tradeoffs to everything

xd

plus, iceburg lettuce has like no nutritional value compared to spinach, swiss chard, kale, beat greens, collards, ect.

spices are insane for antioxidant capacity

especially cloves

yeah

I commented expecting an argument but this seems pretty reasonable.

@Tiberius That's a very bold claim.

Didn't jordan peterson just check into rehab? >.>

I respect the guy, but his voice is all raspy now like shawn baker and he sounds like death

Yes but supposedly his all-meat diet "cured" his depression

I guess not..

So the guy who preaches manning up to problems goes on a drug binge because of a stressful life event? 🤔

Also, science doesn't really become outdated. As long as the methidology is sound, the data remains valid.

You're missing my point

Also, two anecdotes doesn't invalidate decades of plant-based nutrition research..

You honestly think there's no evidence that saturated fat is bad for people despite almost a century of research claiming otherwise? Refined carbs being bad doesn't make sat fats automatically good. They can both be bad.

Red meat contains saturated fat..

In relevant quantities

thus, you eat red meat you eat saturated fat

its related to our discussion, not goalpast shifting..

Plus I assume that's what you're going to do is just deny sat fat and cholesterol have any negative effects.

even lean cuts contain saturated fat.. 😒

lmfao no its absolutely not LOL

there is no dietary requirement for saturated fat.

No its not...

You think we can't manufacture cholesterol without saturated fat?

We can synthesize cholesterol from fat sources other than saturated fat..

PUFAs can be inflammatory, but that's because of prostaglandin formation. Saturated fats still are more inflammatory overall, especially compared to PUFAs/MUFAs

If you guys want to debate than DM me. I'd like to address each issue you have individually.

douchebag.

Yes, fat is. We synthesize our own saturated fat in the quantities we need..

@Imaorange Hmm yeah for sure. Despite me being a staunch conservative in every other respect, youre gonna scream down my throat and call me effeminized for not eating meat. Lel...

Implications..

I didn't make anything up..

oy veyA

oy vey! I'm discovered!

No but seriously, I'm convinced plant-based nutrition is optimal for human health.

obviously in the absence of processed food

And what do you think I made up?

I promise you I'm not a shill. I said there's no need for DIETARY saturated fat, which is actually true. I didn't say there's no need for fat at all.

I'm not though. What do you think dietary saturated fat is required for?

I missed it because of the spam

yes correct

no not correct

We can synthesize cholesterol from mono and polyunsaturated fats as well

In fact if you overdo the mono/polyunsaturated fats your cholesterol woll go up as well.

there's other parhways for the endogenous synthesis of cholesterol

Tbh I think that the (powers that be) are in bed with animal agriculture too

and yes vegans do politicize it and it has become a weapon of the left

but I don't think plant-based nutrition is guilty of anything other than association

I agree we should avoid oils as well and stick to whole unrefined plant foods

But ALA (plant-omega 3) helps to balance out the bad PUFAs if you're eating flax, chia seeds ect.

But because of entropy there's significant energy loss focusing it down to cattle. We spend like 80% of our grains on feeding livestock. And again, i dont advocate for the environment

And saturated fat is generally more inflammatory than PUFA, though through a different mechanism.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516-31802017000200157

>Consumption of saturated fatty acids (SFAs) was related to postprandial upregulation of genes associated with pro-inflammatory pathways in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs), in comparison with monounsaturated fatty acid (MUFA) or polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) intake. In addition, acute intake of a high-SFA meal also induced a postprandial pro-inflammatory response for several inflammatory genes in subcutaneous adipose tissue. Both high-MUFA and high-PUFA diets showed anti-inflammatory profiles, or at least a less pronounced pro-inflammatory response than did SFA consumption

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27621193/

>The HPA diet resulted in increased brain activation in the basal ganglia compared to the HOA diet as well as **increased secretion of pro-inflammatory cytokines.**

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1140705/

>High intake of saturated fat doubled the risk of Alzheimer's disease, and even moderate intake of trans fat increased the risk by 2 to 3 times.[20] By contrast, higher intake of both polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats was associated with lower risk of developing Alzheimer's disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29701155/

>A total of 8630 participants and 633 cases from four independent prospective cohort studies were included in the present meta-analysis. A higher dietary saturated fat intake was significantly associated with an increased risk of 39% and 105% for AD (RR: 1.39; 95% CI: 1.00, 1.94) and dementia (RR: 2.05; 95% CI: 1.06, 3.98), respectively. Dose-response analysis indicated a 4 g/day increment of saturated fat intake was related to 15% higher risk of AD (RR: 1.15; 95% CI: 1.01, 1.31). However, there was no significant association found between dietary intake of total, monounsaturated, polyunsaturated fat and AD or dementia risk.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3520521/

>12%-SF consumption leads to heavier body weights, larger adipocyte size, and greater fat mass than any other diet

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6448040/

>Increased saturated FFAs, observed in obesity and high fat intake models, have an intrinsic pro-inflammatory potential that impacts important cell functions. Fatty acids may activate Toll-like receptor 4 (TLR4) signaling in adipocytes and macrophages and induce inflammatory signaling

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/79/6/969/4690257

>Thus, the results from our study indicate that, in addition to their hypercholesterolemic effects, trans **and saturated fatty acids** exacerbate the risk of cardiovascular disease as a result of their effects on adhesion molecules.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15774905/

> High SFA caused deterioration in FMD compared with high PUFA, MUFA, or CARB diets. Inflammatory responses may also be increased on this diet

sorry lol dont mean to spam thats just my copypasta

I don't think exercise is going to confound that data. Exercise is important, but diet has a much steeper effect on health.

Isn't it also interesting how Nigerians, who have some of the highest incidence of the APOE4 (alzheimers-promoting) gene among their population have some of the lowest rates of Alzheimer's in the world (they eat mostly a low-fat plant-based diet). Many physicians have suggested the pathology of Alzheimer's and Vascular dementia to be similar, and even Dr. Alzheimer himself noted significant atheroschlerotic changes within the vascular system of the brain in his first patient.

And APOE4 is the primary cholesterol carrier in the brain

Well yeah

I mean sure

maybe you could argue during your growth spurts it can help to have the added igf1 from eggs and meat

but I think its a performance vs longevity thing

everythings a tradeoff

I hate andcdotes, but when I went plant based, I dropped 50 lbs back into the normal weight range, my blood pressure went from 140/90 to 100/60, my hemmeroids went away, i started having regular bowel movements again, and many of my aliments lessened or went away

None I'm sedentary because of a heart condition

so that pretty much stayed the same

I mean I do light exercise but I cant really push myself

But overall I feel much better now than I had before

I'm telling you I literally can't exercise lol

>.>

but dr. Goldsteinbergman told me to not move

gg wp ./ff 20

yeah it gives me this burning rage even thinking about it