So Catholics and Orthodox share the same interpretation in original sin?

It has more to do with historical philosophies and culture. Remember that the Orthodox were mostly Greeks at one time.

Greek philosophy etc

Our churches are more mystical in a sense, hence the holy light in Easter etc

Here is another Catholic Church

That looks mostly as our churches

Most but not all ECs were once Orthodox

Rag.

Yeah

Do

Orthodox

and Catholics

share

the

same

As I said, same liturgical rite

If you spam again we are gonna have a problem

Seriously though I do apologize.

@Iakovos Also sorry to you too, my tone probably seemed a little aggressive, not that I wanted it

It's all good.

@Iakovos So, for your questions though, it would be best to visit some different churches from cathobros to orthobros and speak with the priests there. I believe they will be happy to answer your questions

I will visit an Orthodox Church tomorrow morning.

Catholic original sin is more like a curse as a result of an individual sin

Like inheriting a disease

Not infecting yourself with it as Adam did

The same as us then, because in a sense we don't inherit the sin but only the consequences

We do not believe people are *guilty* of Adam's sin. Merely that we suffer the consequences of what he did. So the blame falls on us

Well obviously, original sin is evident as we all die.

Yeah basically

Oh so that makes sense.

Okay, then Catholics and Orthodox are in harmony with each other on that.

Our relationships are "mostly" good

If I can get past the leavened bread I will most likely join an Orthodox Church.

But if I can't, then I will continue my original plan to be confirmed Catholic.

The pope have tried to mend the relationship with our churches and in 2001 it was the first time the Pope asked for forginess to Orthodox, not something that did go too well or not too bad

Who are the 4 patriarchs at this time?

Jerusalem Pierbattista Pizzaballa (Apostolic Administrator)

The mutual excommunications were lifted in the 60s

Basically there are tons of patriarchs to send

Prior to the 60s did both believe the other was going to hell?

That belief still resides on most higher-ups in orthodoxism

As they see Catholicism as schismatic

So Orthodox are going to heaven and Catholics hell?

Yet Catholics are tolerant of Orthodox.

Not in that sense

They don't believe that catholics are doomed(going to hell), but their hardships befall to them because of the papacy.

From both sides have been made movements to calm the winds, especially with the Pope you guys had in 2001 and the winds are calmer

because of him trying to get on the good side of Orthodoxism

It's still not possible for a Catholic to receive communion in Eastern Orthodox church as far as I know though

In the future maybe who knows maybe Eastern and West will have a communion

Catholic Rule: Catholics can take communion in an Orthodox Church, Orthodox can take communion in a Catholic Church

Orthodox Rule: Catholics cannot take communion in an Orthodox Church; Orthodox cannot take communion in a Catholic Church

@Deleted User @Deleted User that’s my understanding of original sin as well. We didn’t commit the sin ourselves, so in that sense we aren’t guilty of it, but we do suffer the consequences of the original sin (i.e. we die)

To cause the schism... did the pope try to exert his power/authority over the east and they pulled an Anglican move and just said “lol no, we’ll be our own pope”?

Sorta kinda

Normans took southern Italy, which had belonged to the ERE

Pope asked for help from the emperor

So the emperor got an idea for east and west to fight together

But there was a guy who wanted to be Pope, whose letter was included with that

Pope told him no, I'm Pope, not you

So wannabe pope excommunicated the messenger, and the messenger excommunicated him

And then with the Massacre of the Latins, the 4th Crusade, etc made it worse

Probably in 1054 nobody really cared about this and it didn't seem like a big deal or very permanent

@Deleted User thank you for that article about leavened bread. I am now okay with leavened bread for Orthodox Communion.

Eastern Catholic use leavened bread

It's not a matter of faith, both have validity and spiritual basis

Byzantine Rite also don't use the filioque

What’s filioque?

Also... I forgot to ask for clarity on what was meant by the immaculate conception. I know Mary was a virgin before, during, and after birth. After birth, meaning she “remained a virgin” after Jesus came out of her at the minimum. Was there some other part of IC I’m missing?

Immaculate Conception means that Mary was conceived immaculately to save her from original sin so that she would be made ready to give birth to Jesus.

Now if this is true, then why doesn't God make everyone ready the same as Mary was? Or even Christ.

Why can't Christ just be conceived immaculately like Mary was? There are so many questions regarding it, and Orthodox Christians reject this.

Luke 2:24 is evidence that she had to be consecrated as well after giving birth.

Read Leviticus 12:8

And then read Luke 2:24

Unless @Deleted User can accurately rebuttal this

Oh... as in Mary was born without original sin, so she could give birth to a sinless Jesus. Is that what you’re saying?

Jesus came to fulfill the law, not abolish it. That was part of the law from Moses to offer the sacrifice after giving birth.

Doesn’t necessarily contradict her being sinless.

I know.

You probably don’t know this, because you don’t have kids, but women bleed a lot after giving birth. They sent us home with a bunch of adult diaper type things to catch all the blood and stuff that comes out after a baby come out of you.

oof

The woman being “unclean” has a lot more to do with physical health and hygiene than it does spiritual cleanliness.

True.

They didn’t exactly have period pads and disposable diapers 🤣

Well, I will continue on my studies

I just wish it was more clear

So you don’t want the women walking around bleeding everywhere they go during their periods or after birth. So they made it a “law” for women to stay in certain places so the town won’t get blood and afterbirth all over it.

Remember, you’re reading in the Bible when all these sanitary standards we have today were being created and written down. Look at Leviticus and how it tells you to wash your hands, and clean up open sores you have.

The KJV calls every skin issue “leprosy” in the OT. A pimple is leprosy, a bruise is leprosy, etc. The Leviticus instructions give basic sanitary standards for healthcare. Wash your wounds, wash your hands, clean bloody clothes, etc.

To circle back... Women were made, by the laws of Moses, to stay away from society at large after giving birth so all that afterbirth stuff that comes out won’t be all over the streets and people’s shop floors and stuff. The reason for the animal sacrifice isn’t something I’ve delved in to, so someone else will have to help you there.

Why aren't you Catholic?

Don’t like Mexicans.

<:TheodoreRooseveltLaugh:585130800870195200>

Kidding...

I’ve just never felt the reason to go to one honestly.

The only real difference I’ve seen from Rags and some of the other guys from my church is the pope and apostolic succession.

They’ve never taught Mary’s immaculate conception, but I’ve never had the idea to ask either.

All the pastors at my independent baptist church have had doctorates in theology from different colleges. So I haven’t had much reason to doubt their messages at church.

Okay.

Because Protestant, I know that isn’t the case at every church. So instead of being able to look at the Vatican and making sure the church is grounded in proper doctrine, you have to ask the pastor(s) themselves specific questions about their theological stances.

Well I’m off to try and get some sleep before church. Have faith that God will lead you to the answers you’re looking for.

@Iakovos Orthodox still believe she was sinless

Without personal sin, and without original sin, are two different things

It has more to do with how Orthodox explain what "original sin" means

Just arrested three people

Uh oh. What did they do?

drug charges most likely.

@Andrules @Niveron in general

https://youtu.be/UDgXOnD4HI0

After attending Orthodox Liturgy I think I've decided Orthodoxy over Catholicism, considering the two.

No.

No love for our britbongs 😦

@Iakovos Also how did you find the liturgy?

It's quite simple. Doctrine has been made manifest, and there is no more *to* manifest. We have been told how to behave, and how to conduct ourselves, the Tradition, the Scripture. All of it is in harmony.

The Orthodox Church remains unchanged, and I feel that God was actually there.

We sang so much, my back and feet starting to hurt from the standing. So much reverence for our Lord.

People dressed modestly, everyone was so humble, patient and understanding. The priest was immensely patient, rightly appointed by the Holy Spirit.

So when are you going to join now? Have you spoken with the priest?

Also @Deleted User I just learned about the trouble that the Church of Constantinople is having, having a schismatic Bishop.

And yes I spoke with the priest.

He wants me to read a book and find a sponsor.

Church of Constantinople sadly is still under turkish control

And also get a letter officially approving of my baptism.

If I can't get a letter he will baptize me.

I see, thats good news 😃

Or the new priest will because our current priest is moving to a larger parish

It's close to your house or you will have to do a journey each time?

I love the artwork, not too much focus on Mother Mary, and the focus that is given glorifies God.

30 minutes of driving.

I see

Thoughts @Deleted User

?

For what? @Iakovos

My journey today.

I'm happy that you finally decided the path that you want to follow.

Welcome to Church again and to Orthodoxism ☦

😄

I'm not in yet.

Sorry if I'm kinda slow, but my brain is melting from the studying this days 😂

Well, you took the decision, now it's only time to join us

I'm going to take a small break for my mind to calm down, cya later

cya

Lol Rag is gonna think I can’t read

Back

@Iakovos If you need to ask anything feel free to dm, I can also send you material to study for modern saints and the saints of orthodoxy in general and anything related to the church history

I have a book that a sister in Christ bought me.

<:TheodoreRooseveltLaugh:585130800870195200>

Well... Knightfall turned to shit at the end.

@Andrules It's not worth a watch?

I was going to watch it at summer

Was good until the ending episodes.

They pulled a GoT one? xD

“The pope can’t declare a crusade to protect the holy land. That would be bad and stuff.”

“Killing Muslims is bad, guys. We were founded to protect pilgrims on the road to Jerusalem.”

@wwezombiegod she’s taken

If your Faith hasn't been tested, can you call yourself a Believer?

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.

40k Chaplain quote generator

Your faith is tested every day tbh esp in our clown world

They tested Stormbreaker's faith 1939-1945<:smugpepe:445634631950139403>

Are we saying religious 40k qoutes?

I dunno any, can't afford 40k

Even a man who has nothing can still have faith.

I really like that one

And the books are cheaper.

Yeah, the tabletop is the stingy one to get into

You can look up lists of quotes

They have really good writing quite often

They should too, its our last stronghold <:tinfoil:448314181217812500>

No, because he can't afford 40k if he has nothing

Most people can't afford

I am the Hammer, I am the point of His spear, I am the mail about His fist, I am the bane of His foes and the woes of the treacherous, I am the End.

You may say, it is impossible for a man to become like the Machine. And I would reply, that only the smallest mind strives to comprehend its limits.

That is a really fucking good one

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Portal:Quotes

Really though. If nothing else look through them. There is some really motivating stuff.

<:godemperor:445097873890082817>

Things you could attribute to god or sayings that are pretty hard core right wing

A suspicious mind is a healthy mind.

Happiness is a delusion of the weak.

Faith without deeds is worthless

Prayer cleanses the soul, Pain cleanses the body.

Faith without works is dead, is in the Bible

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

I wouldnt doubt the writers read the bible

The Bible has some pretty badass stuff in it

It's more badass when purging heretics is a theme

Far be it from us to do such a thing as to flee from them. If our time has come, let us die bravely for our brethren, and leave no cause to question our honor.

The bible has it. But 40k made it into an art form

The 40k writers most certainly have/do read the Bible.

By the writing styles in the Horus Heresy books, I assume some are actually faithful Christians. Others I’d say are atheist God-haters like Richard Dawkins.

It’s all in the way they write about the God Emperor of Mankind. Some write him as the all loving master, others write him as some kind of powerful dickhead. And that’s a change between space marine chapters that stayed loyal, so it isn’t a narrator changing the tone because they turned to chaos.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/416424774617661451/587619543955013632/62090565_426735388180845_722633878254125056_n.png

@Deleted User why did the schism happen

You've heard our answers a lot

Yeah but now it's more important than ever

Catholic answer: Eastern patriarch claimed primacy, Bishop of Rome said no.
Orthodox answer: Bishop of Rome claimed primacy, Eastern patriarchs said no

The Catholic answer I gave you in PM at length with a long list of historic documents, quotes, citations etc

Sounds like someone is lying.

Two radically different answers.

Well of those two answers, both are basically true.

Depending on how you look at it.

Bishop of Rome *did* claim primacy in both cases. But according to Catholics, his predecessors had already claimed it a million times and it was established doctrine from the beginning, which is what all those historic documents I sent you are evidence of.

The Orthodox position is that Rome had not claimed it before

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2TsVIrNlLK5dV9EaDZ5SGpweHM/view?usp=sharing

For you @Iakovos

@Andrules To be honest I did not read your thing instead I watched this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_s9Rcsg5UI

Now it even said in this video that a 'myth' that the Patriarch of Constantinople is somehow the 'Pope' of the Eastern Churches.

Start at 11:50

I don't know, this schism business makes it hard to find the One True Church of God.

@Deleted User what is your interpretation of 1st Corinthians 5:6-8

@Deleted User yours as well.

The Orthodox Church use leavened bread because there is a greek word that differentiates leavened from unleavened, and the bread that Christ used in the last supper used the Greek word for normal bread, yet Latin Catholics use unleavened bread. Why?

ολως ακουεται εν υμιν πορνεια και τοιαυτη πορνεια ητις ουδε εν τοις εθνεσιν ονομαζεται ωστε γυναικα τινα του πατρος εχειν

2 και υμεις πεφυσιωμενοι εστε και ουχι μαλλον επενθησατε ινα εξαρθη εκ μεσου υμων ο το εργον τουτο ποιησας

3 εγω μεν γαρ ως απων τω σωματι παρων δε τω πνευματι ηδη κεκρικα ως παρων τον ουτως τουτο κατεργασαμενον

4 εν τω ονοματι του κυριου ημων ιησου χριστου συναχθεντων υμων και του εμου πνευματος συν τη δυναμει του κυριου ημων ιησου χριστου

5 παραδουναι τον τοιουτον τω σατανα εις ολεθρον της σαρκος ινα το πνευμα σωθη εν τη ημερα του κυριου ιησου

6 ου καλον το καυχημα υμων ουκ οιδατε οτι μικρα ζυμη ολον το φυραμα ζυμοι

7 εκκαθαρατε ουν την παλαιαν ζυμην ινα ητε νεον φυραμα καθως εστε αζυμοι και γαρ το πασχα ημων υπερ ημων ετυθη χριστος

8 ωστε εορταζωμεν μη εν ζυμη παλαια μηδε εν ζυμη κακιας και πονηριας αλλ εν αζυμοις ειλικρινειας και αληθειας

9 εγραψα υμιν εν τη επιστολη μη συναναμιγνυσθαι πορνοις

10 και ου παντως τοις πορνοις του κοσμου τουτου η τοις πλεονεκταις η αρπαξιν η ειδωλολατραις επει οφειλετε αρα εκ του κοσμου εξελθειν

11 νυνι δε εγραψα υμιν μη συναναμιγνυσθαι εαν τις αδελφος ονομαζομενος η πορνος η πλεονεκτης η ειδωλολατρης η λοιδορος η μεθυσος η αρπαξ τω τοιουτω μηδε συνεσθιειν

12 τι γαρ μοι και τους εξω κρινειν ουχι τους εσω υμεις κρινετε

13 τους δε εξω ο θεος κρινει και εξαρειτε τον πονηρον εξ υμων αυτων

Translated to english:
it sounds that there is sexual immorality * + among you, and indeed such immorality * that is not even among the nations - someone cohabits with * his father's wife. + 2 And are you proud of this? You should not be mourned, + so that the one who has done this act is expelled from among you + 3 Although I am absent in the body, I am present in the spirit, and I have already judged the one who did it as if I were indeed together your. 4 When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus, and knowing that I am with you in the spirit together with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you must deliver this man to Satan + for the destruction of the flesh, to save the spirit * the day of the Lord. + 6 Your blame is not good. Do not know that a little leaven causes fermentation throughout the dough? * + 7 Dissolve the old yeast to be a new dough, since you have not been fermented * Because Christ, our Easter lamb + was sacrificed + 8 So let us we keep the feast, + not with old leaven, nor with leaven of evil and wickedness, but with unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 In my letter, I wrote to you that you should cease to engage * sexually immoral people. * 10 I did not mean to have no intercourse with the sexually immoral people * of this world + or the greedy ones * or the harpmen or idolaters. Otherwise, you should leave the world. + 11 But now I am writing to you to stop communicating * + anybody called a brother who is sexually immoral * or greedy * + or idolatry or abusive * or drunken + or harp, + not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what work do I have to judge them out? Do not judge them in the midst, 13 while God judges them out + + "Remove the wicked man from among you." +

@Iakovos That's the whole translation from Corinthians to English. Now for your other question. In NT when they wrote down about leavened and unleavened bread there is one small distinction to understand it. When they refer to un-leavened they refer it as azymo(αζυμος) while when the speak for leavened beard they speak about artos(αρτος)bread

In case for the supper that he told them to drink wine for his blood and eat the artos(αρτος)bread for his body.

Why does it say keep the feast?

The Feast of Unleavened Bread? As far as my knowledge, nobody celebrates that today.

@Deleted User also

I asked you too because I am considering Orthodoxy.

@Iakovos The Feast of Unleavened Bread is a judaic tradition

When the time for exodus came

they didn't have time for the bread to rise

Right.

so what they took was unleavened bread

with them

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Hebrew_Roots/Holy_Days/Week_of_Unleavened_Bread @Iakovos

Now for this passage of Corinthians, it starts with criticising them for the sins he heard that take place there, so my understanding is that when he calls them to throw to clean the old leaven and to become a new dough. (By that most likely he means to strip the old sins and anew themselves) We do have 40 days of fasting before pascha/Easter

@Iakovos

Latins use unleavened but ECs use leavened, both being in full communion so both are equally valid

If leavened was invalid then they would not have been allowed to return to full communion

We have the same 40 day fasting period but we calculate dates differently. Latins calculate based on the Gregorian Calendar. ECs and Orthodox use the Julian Calendar for holy days. So they end up with Christmas in January.

Which isn't wrong, and is because most of their countries didn't adopt the Gregorian Calendar until very recently. I think Russia took until the last century.

Both count as valid yes, We just have this small distinction on words in koine greek for unleavened and leavened thats what I wanted to clear up

Whenever we use azymo we mean for unleavened and when the scripture speaks for artos(αρτος) it speaks for leavened bread

also Good morning Rag

Well, it was an audio file not a document to read.

I found it for you. Asked for information on the schism and that’s what I got.

About June 24 I will share the Facebook link to that Wiccan's Facebook so we can give that disciple of Satan the Zucc!!!

By then enough time will have elapsed to where she wouldn't have any clue who did it. Then I will share her personal facebook as well as her husbands.

Then I will share her tumblr so we can take it down too before she becomes active on it again.

Then her youtube so we can spam and flag the fuck out of it!

It will put a massive dent on her outreach to her 4-5K follower base!

I need anyone willing to help me take down this spawn of Satan to prep alt accounts on Tumblr, Youtube, and Facebook so we can take her down when the day comes!

Also... does anyone know how to take down someones kofi account?

She is like a fucking Joel Osteen or Billy Graham of Wiccans!

https://ko-fi.com/

Cut off her funding!