individual realization is an individual choice.

an individual path, it is not communal

@Deleted User https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aeQ3DmKU7A

"Ezhov: Yes, I talked to him. There were two variants of our plans. The first variant: in the case of war, when we proposed to carry out the arrests of the members of the government and their physical removal. And the second variant: if there were no war in the immediate future, **then to get rid of the leadership of the Party and the government, especially Stalin** and Molotov, **by carrying out terrorist acts against them.** I firmly remember that I told Zhukovskii about this after I had entrusted him with the existence of the conspiracy."

https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/ezhovinterrogs.html

@друг lmao

@OF-8 Well dang, I can be self realised right now, I just have to choose it. Screw you guys I'm off to do heroin. <:troll_king:312064227542040576>

https://discord.gg/DSznZqw

heroin v marxism, heroin is faster and arguably more sustainable

go in fam

Was he tortured for those responses?

Many people have admitted to witchcraft under torture

I haven't seen any evidence of that, so no?

@OF-8 Self realisation is not simply a choice, dingus.

if you say so, i dun did it

it was hard

n=1

Choices are hard?

Yezhov claimed that many of his confessions were obtained under torture

backing the choice with real effort is hard, so yeah

So it's not just a choice.

making the choice with the intent of sticking to it, thats hard

He denied being a spy, conspirator, or terrorist

well its a series of choices

He did say that he killed many people, but justified it that they were enemies of the people

"[There is NO evidence that Ezhov beaten or tortured to get these confessions – only "supposed" by Pavliukov, 527 bot. - GF]"

Yezhov claimed himself that those confessions were given under torture

"When did you become a German spy?

I was recruited in 1930. In Germany, in Königsberg."

"How did you use this NKVD laboratory in your espionage and conspiratorial activities?" asked Rodos, glancing at Kobulov who was sitting beside him.

"ANSWER: I knew that such a laboratory existed and that Iagoda made use of it in his conspiratorial activities."

yes, his confessions of being a spy, according to himself, were confessed through torture

Okay, show me proof that he was tortured, then.

Choice is metaphysical. Only effort leads to realisation. However your conception is based in exploitation.

Where can we find proof that he was tortured? We have to realize his claims of being tortured for information

and if that is true, those claims cannot be trusted

because plenty of people have confessed to witchcraft under torture

I've only seen allegations of torture, but no proof

you must choose to exploit yourself to fulfill your choice

but we don't know if he was tortured

it's impossible to condense further

and people who confess to witchcraft, we too cannot give evidence of specific people being tortured

@OF-8 How can a self-exploiting pursuit leads to self-realisation? It is a contradiction.

@Sorghagtani Beki source it for me

we just know that torture was used to garner confessions out of many people who confessed to witchcraft

It's not the same @Sorghagtani Beki

I havent even seen where Yezhov himself claims he was tortured

if poorly directed, its horrible

Jansen and Petrov, Stalin's Loyal Executioner, p. 187-188.

Witchcraft was a common boogeyman in that era

And there's thousands of examples you can use

Even parts of the culture or writings that explain how they were tortured in detail

We also have evidence of soviet torture methods

if one is constantly awake and aware of the exploitation of the self, one develops a keen multi-dimensional view of their own value

Such as the spanish inquistion's

We're talking about an specific person here

this allows the worker to realize that HE is the means of production

or rather

im in control here

sure, a specific person who confessed witchcraft can claim later they did it under torture

no proof for them in particular

that's not what I'm talking about

@Sorghagtani Beki let me take a look really quicky

fuck

it's not on google preview

kek

@OF-8
>keen multi-dimensional view
Sounds like schizophrenia. How does one be simultaneously exploited and self-realised?

what exactly did ezhov say if you know

by choosing, with forethought, the conditions and duration of exploitation

the realization of self is the realization that life is WORK

he said on the basis of accusations of terrorism, espionage, and conspiracy, that he preferred death to telling lies

and that previous confessions were obtained under torture

not exploitation, but work, setting a goal and hitting it

do this with vision to a larger goal

Well that source is the only one I've ever seen with Ezhov himself claiming he was tortured

@OF-8 "I choose to be self-contradictory. Therefore the inconsistency doesn't exist. This is logical to me."
Basically you self-flatter yourself to justify your own irrationality.

ok

and since it's pretty obvious he lied about being surrounded by enemies of the people and that the 14,000 (more like 40,000) he executed were such enemies, then even if he does claim he was tortured, why should he be believed?

i dont get how you see that but again, we have deadlocks

i would imagine it to be something around the concept of bodily autonomy

as most deadlocks are

There is one other source cited by Wikipedia but when translated says absolutely nothing about torture despite it being referenced for that, so I'm doubtful of it

but also, this inconsistency cannot exist, as the system i have works, provably works.

He confessed at the trial that the executing of those 14,000 people was true

and justified it through the idea that they were enemies of the people

however, at that same trial he denied espionage, terrorism, and conspiracy

and claimed those confessions were obtained through torture

Right, but he is certainly lying about the number and the nature of the killings

maybe he believed they were actually enemies of the people

There's no evidence he was tortured except his own claim after the investigations and original confessions, and even then he lies about other things, so why should he be trusted?

Okay I really don't think so. lmao

there is no way that can be known

That seems unlikely

well Beria sure didnt believe this

and, on to crown it all, after Ezhov was removed executions and arrests plummeted

We have a lot of evidence of soviet torture in investigations

It is not unbelievable that Yezhov would have been tortured himself

Why would he admit to those things?

Why would he freely condemn himself to death?

Surely he knew that if he stated those things, including conspiracy against Stalin, there would be absolutely no hope left for his survival

@Sorghagtani Beki what is the difference if there was torture or not?

@ShadyMarxist we are discussing whether Yezhov conspired against Stalin to be executed under those reasonings