Message from @Sorghagtani Beki
Discord ID: 316794495855362048
ok
and since it's pretty obvious he lied about being surrounded by enemies of the people and that the 14,000 (more like 40,000) he executed were such enemies, then even if he does claim he was tortured, why should he be believed?
i dont get how you see that but again, we have deadlocks
i would imagine it to be something around the concept of bodily autonomy
as most deadlocks are
There is one other source cited by Wikipedia but when translated says absolutely nothing about torture despite it being referenced for that, so I'm doubtful of it
but also, this inconsistency cannot exist, as the system i have works, provably works.
He confessed at the trial that the executing of those 14,000 people was true
and justified it through the idea that they were enemies of the people
however, at that same trial he denied espionage, terrorism, and conspiracy
and claimed those confessions were obtained through torture
Right, but he is certainly lying about the number and the nature of the killings
maybe he believed they were actually enemies of the people
There's no evidence he was tortured except his own claim after the investigations and original confessions, and even then he lies about other things, so why should he be trusted?
Okay I really don't think so. lmao
there is no way that can be known
That seems unlikely
well Beria sure didnt believe this
and, on to crown it all, after Ezhov was removed executions and arrests plummeted
We have a lot of evidence of soviet torture in investigations
Why would he admit to those things?
Why would he freely condemn himself to death?
Surely he knew that if he stated those things, including conspiracy against Stalin, there would be absolutely no hope left for his survival
@Sorghagtani Beki what is the difference if there was torture or not?
@ShadyMarxist we are discussing whether Yezhov conspired against Stalin to be executed under those reasonings
However, Yezhov claimed that previous confessions were obtained through torture
@Sorghagtani Beki what is the difference?
Torture biases confessions
@Sorghagtani Beki Who cares about confessions?
The soviets most clearly did when they tortured Yezhov into giving them
@Sorghagtani Beki why is it important for us?
Before this, there was also discussion on why Yezhov was executed in the first place
and if it had been for mass killings, why use fabricated excuses?
There was plenty of evidence of Yezhov's massacres
@Sorghagtani Beki so? what is the end point?
It was a discussion on whether Stalin remained apathetic to Yezhov or openly opposed his manners of executions
and so far I have not gotten evidence to disprove an apathetic air
@Sorghagtani Beki It is interesting. Some people in the first world can't say if Obama did this or that and why. But they know why Stalin did this or that in another country in another time.
or confirm a concerned disposition
So many opinionated people .