Probably not on the whole, especially before Catholicism retakes politics power. Orthodoxy is easy to control with politics, be it Poland, the Sultan or Stalin.

The Orthodox don't like the filioque because they think it creates a subordinate role for the Holy Spirit, which in their view breaks the unity of the Trinity. I've been trying to come up with a good argument to counter that claim, but the EO are more mystery focused, making it difficult to formulate a convincing rational argument.

Most Eastern rite Catholics are Ukrainian, descending from those who converted during Polish rule.

True

Economic and political power play a major role in shaping that

Mystery focused is a fun way of saying bad at high level theology 😂

Economics drives everything else

The Ukrainians have their own issues concerning the Faith

Would it be wrong to honour Tsar Nicholas? He was a martyr after all

He was an occultist

And an adulter

Killed because of his political power

In no way is he a martyr

I've never seen evidence of those first two.

Pretty sure those were rumors to discredit him

That I find hard to believe. He was definitely killed for political power

By Jewish bolsheviks

Yes, that is tangible

He was not killed for his faith, which is kind of the point of martyrdom

wasn't he at best just a bad ruler?

Yeah, I wouldn’t call him a martyr

Considering how well Rasputin was in good relations with many of the royal family I see no reason to find it implausible

He's a martyr in the orthodox church, just pointing that out

No no no, I'm saying I've never seen evidence of him being an occultist or adulterer. He was definitely murdered by kikes.

He was also a terrible ruler

His wife might've been the adulteress, in that case

I was agreeing with you Caedes. I knew what you meant

his wife seemed a bit whacky with all the rasputin stuff

And because Rasputin was in with some of the family doesn’t mean he was in with all of them

I should think anyway

Ctzarist Russia was in fact a terrible place to live in

Pretty sure it was other families that actually wanted Rasputin dead

The czarina being a degenerate would make sense. She was raised a German prot.

Yes but that's a strawman there, no one's talking about living conditions

And agreed there Caedes

A wife can't invite and keep an occultist at the court for years without implicit approval of her husband

Nick was a shy and distracted ruler

Pretty sure it can be done

Unless he hid it well?

By his own admission he didn't want the throne right?

Yeah

As for being a poor ruler, he was a simple man, not well suited to the intrigues of politics. Most of what went on during his reign was actually the work of the aristocrats.

His father was the good ruler, murdered, however

Forgive me for being difficult, but this is the first I’ve ever heard the claims of Nicholas being an adulterer and an occultist

same

Yes, it's mostly to discredit his simplicity

Allegedly he had an affair with a ballerina

But there's not really much backing that up

Ah ok

Hadn’t heard that one before

Albeit, I don’t know a whole lot about that particular time in Russia

My focuses have been more on Western Europe and Rome

Tsarist Russia was basically the same as Rome technologically

Wild claim

Maybe worse

Also the first I’ve heard of such a claim

Alexander II was industrialising the nation and reforming the old feudal system

Hahaha

However he was murdered

The III, my bad

Im just trying to make a point, the nation was (and by a large part still is) an absolute shithole

or was he not?

It is pretty much the backwater of Europe

German soldiers were taken aback, they thought they were fighting in the middle ages

hmm, i'm mistaking someone

Those who knew him well described him as a very pious man, and very nearly as devoted to his family. He apparently liked to spend as much time as he could with his children, and delegated much of his power to aristocrats who would lie to his face about the state of the empire. Many of those men had served under his father, so he trusted them.

That’s the more likely scenario

^

And given most aristocracies across Europe were riddled with Jewish corruption at the time

It would make sense

He only tolerated Rasputin because his son seemed to improve under the mystic's care, but he hated the man. He just feared losing his son more than he disliked this madman from BFE.

Yes, my bad, they murdered Nicholas's Prime Minister who was reforming things for good

Pyotr Stolypin

He was murdered by a jew leftist

Stolypin is based as fuck

All Jews are leftists. No need to qualify.

This was the assassin

http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?ID=1864

There’s one sect I haven at least a little respect for. I forget their name, but they’re the fundamentalists of jews and are viciously hated by the rest because of it. They completely reject the Talmud and say it’s false. They believe only in the Torah.

I'd rather not risk it and not trust any

I agree, but there’s always the chance we could use them to cause even more strife and disunion amongst the Jews.

They're called Karaites.

YES

That’s right

Thank you

It was bugging the hell out of me that I couldn’t remember

Stolypin made the day of the rope real 😻

Nobody hates Jews quite like other Jews

They love stepping on each other’s toes all the time

I'm into a history of philosophy podcast right now, and it just wrapped up Jewish and Muslim philosophy in the Middle Ages. The Karaites come from the same philosophical strain as the Islamic Ash'arites, who currently dominate theology in Islam.

The enemy is not nearly as organized as the facade they put up leads us to believe

The big difference between the Karaites and the Ash'arites is that while the Karaites rejected the rabbis, the Ash'arites rejected everything non-Islamic. Ash'arite theologians banned philosophy, which in the 9th century consisted of everything from metaphysics to geometry. It's why Islam is crazier now than ever.

Both Muslims and Jews are the enemy

Muslims don't really seem to hide it though

Whilst Jews attack from within

Iirc the Eastern Catholics don't include the Filiqoue in the creed in Greek

And by non-Islamic, I mean everything but the Qur'an and the hadith. Even traditional Islamic theology got trashed for being too Aristotelian. Ibn Ash'ari was the primary inspiration for ibn Taimiyya, who would later found Salafism.

The filioque wasn't in the original Greek version of the Credo. It was added when it was translated into Latin, possibly deriving from a tradition in the west of expressly and emphatically emphasizing the union of Father and Son as a safeguard against Arianism.

I'm aware, but it is a division in theology between east and west right?

From the time of Nicea until the 9th century, East and West regarded the difference purely of culture. In 810, the patriarch of Constantinople made it an issue for the first time.