Message from @AP-1138

Discord ID: 570390738022694934


2019-04-23 23:23:43 UTC  

Do they accept papal infallibility for example? Because that's a dogma and it's far from cultural.

2019-04-23 23:23:55 UTC  

yeah thats a big one

2019-04-23 23:24:07 UTC  

Or take the council of trent, see how they feel about many of those.

2019-04-23 23:24:22 UTC  

or like any council after the schism for that matter

2019-04-23 23:24:31 UTC  

Fillioque is major as well

2019-04-23 23:24:37 UTC  

For example that the Catholic Church can punnish heretics and schismatics by death.

2019-04-23 23:24:37 UTC  

I know about all of that

2019-04-23 23:24:57 UTC  

do Eastern Catholics acknowledge filioque?

2019-04-23 23:25:05 UTC  

That's a bit more complicated. They don't like most of the popes themselves, or how much power the pope has. That said, my buddy at least thinks Orthodoxy would benefit from a similar system.

2019-04-23 23:25:06 UTC  

But at the same time, if it’s possible, I should like to see us reconciled with each other

2019-04-23 23:25:11 UTC  

Orthodoxy invented a lot of post hoc anti thomist theology to justify schism

2019-04-23 23:25:18 UTC  

Which is the filioque

2019-04-23 23:25:25 UTC  

funny, Orthodoxy used to benefit from it when it was Catholic

2019-04-23 23:26:17 UTC  

Reconciliation is only one, which is submission to the Catholic Church. Anything else is a farce.

2019-04-23 23:26:35 UTC  

I’m aware

2019-04-23 23:26:39 UTC  

But they’ll never agree to it

2019-04-23 23:27:32 UTC  

Probably not on the whole, especially before Catholicism retakes politics power. Orthodoxy is easy to control with politics, be it Poland, the Sultan or Stalin.

2019-04-23 23:28:24 UTC  

The Orthodox don't like the filioque because they think it creates a subordinate role for the Holy Spirit, which in their view breaks the unity of the Trinity. I've been trying to come up with a good argument to counter that claim, but the EO are more mystery focused, making it difficult to formulate a convincing rational argument.

2019-04-23 23:28:35 UTC  

Most Eastern rite Catholics are Ukrainian, descending from those who converted during Polish rule.

2019-04-23 23:28:51 UTC  

True

2019-04-23 23:29:09 UTC  

Economic and political power play a major role in shaping that

2019-04-23 23:29:23 UTC  

Mystery focused is a fun way of saying bad at high level theology 😂

2019-04-23 23:29:28 UTC  

Economics drives everything else

2019-04-23 23:29:38 UTC  

The Ukrainians have their own issues concerning the Faith

2019-04-23 23:29:45 UTC  

Would it be wrong to honour Tsar Nicholas? He was a martyr after all

2019-04-23 23:29:59 UTC  

He was an occultist

2019-04-23 23:30:03 UTC  

And an adulter

2019-04-23 23:30:12 UTC  

Killed because of his political power

2019-04-23 23:30:19 UTC  

In no way is he a martyr

2019-04-23 23:30:30 UTC  

I've never seen evidence of those first two.

2019-04-23 23:30:32 UTC  

Pretty sure those were rumors to discredit him

2019-04-23 23:30:46 UTC  

That I find hard to believe. He was definitely killed for political power

2019-04-23 23:30:52 UTC  

By Jewish bolsheviks

2019-04-23 23:30:59 UTC  

Yes, that is tangible

2019-04-23 23:31:02 UTC  

He was not killed for his faith, which is kind of the point of martyrdom

2019-04-23 23:31:11 UTC  

wasn't he at best just a bad ruler?

2019-04-23 23:31:15 UTC  

Yeah, I wouldn’t call him a martyr

2019-04-23 23:31:23 UTC  

Considering how well Rasputin was in good relations with many of the royal family I see no reason to find it implausible

2019-04-23 23:31:29 UTC  

He's a martyr in the orthodox church, just pointing that out

2019-04-23 23:31:31 UTC  

No no no, I'm saying I've never seen evidence of him being an occultist or adulterer. He was definitely murdered by kikes.

2019-04-23 23:31:38 UTC  

He was also a terrible ruler