@TMatthews Again, you're very hung up on "the media" and "labeling" - Right now they can DIRECTLY tie us to David Duke, and a leader who glorified killing minorities and the nazification of america - they don't even have to lie - why make their job easy? Trump has been defamed as a "Fascist" a "Nazi" and God knows what else. Why does that claim not stick with him? Because they have no evidence (also he's not). Seeing that we too are neither of these things, it's not unreasonable to think that we have a chance at a more charitable reception, if not with the media, then the American public.

And again, for the fifth or sixth time, the way we are labeled by the media ranks pretty low on a reason for a rebrand, but it's still a net benefit in my mind.

@TMatthews We wouldn't change our idealogy, just our aesthetics so we can distance ourselves from mistakes made in the past.

I'm in no way saying we drop our mission. I'm Saying americans don't want to be preached about the meta political concept of Collective identity. But they want to hear "OUT OUT OUT" and "BUILD THE WALL". They want hard rhetoric that is explicitly Nationalist and *implicitly* Identitarian.

@Asatru Artist - MD with proper vetting, we'd still ensure the people being accepted are pro-white

The left completely seized our institutions by the implementation of leftist theory. Did they tell us this? No. They said "peace and love" all the way to the bank.

@Deleted User It's not just the media. Try explaining why we don't allow Jews to the ordinary conservative who hates "the fake news MSM" and they won't be convinced. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know that so long as we remain a white gentile exclusive organization they will have evidence enough to justify their definitions

Honestly, American identity never really appealed to me growing up. By the time I was born, this country was already subverted and I was taught that America = diversity. I know that that isn't true, but it was hard to get that image out of my mind. I just don't feel any sentimental attachment to the flag and that kind of stuff. I don't mean to offend anyone who does have that, but it's just not something I could develop after going to a minority white high school and being taught for 13 years that the flag symbolizes diversity. I'm sure a lot of younger guys could relate to what I'm saying.

I was excited when I found posters for this group 2 years ago because it was finally something about *European*-American identity. It was such a relief.

As someone Deeply attached to my Italian heritage as well, I can agree. But I think the unfortunate truth is that it's simply not how most Americans think

I think we can still promote an explicit bond between Euro-Americans, if we word it properly. I don't think anyone really wants to be in heterogenous social circles, they just know they aren't allowed admit it.

@Asatru Artist - MD Slippery slope fallacy, it would be aesthetic, not ideaological. By the same logic you could say, not embracing a swastika logo will make us civnats 15 years down the line

@Nemets Curious. I'll have to check it out.

Let's redirect their feelings in our direction rather than trying to completely change them.

you guys have me designing logos now instead of doing my job 😑

Lol

That *is* your job, White man... 😎

@Kingfish This tbh when I end up having to explain to a security guard what IE is I dont really use the term Identarian I always refer to it as Pro-American/ Patriotic group and they understand that and support it at that level.

@Jacob Same reason I joined... an organisation where other White Americans knew their roots

@TMatthews Pretty easy to explain "We are an organization for Americans as defined by the great men who founded this nation, there are many organizations that myself as a white Christian gentile would be prohibited from joining, so it makes perfect sense that such an organization exists exclusively for us."

Easy as

I'm more than willing to help other Whites get connected to their roots. It's hard to deny someone their culture

@Jacob Same. America isn't a nation anymore. It's an economic zone and the only thing binding us together is a vast bureaucracy. I wish that wasn't the case. I don't expect the US to survive the century intact and if it does, we end up in a South Africa situation. I feel a strong connection to the land where my ancestors have lived since the 1600s, but the institutions have pretty all been subverted

Generally the people on a completely basic level want three things. Safety, money, and as little change as possible. Appealing to their safety, the economic consequences, and radical changes that are being forced upon Them is what will stir them Into action.

@Virgil Is slippery slope really a fallacy though? Accepting gays -> to gay marriage -> accepting trannies -> men in womens bathrooms -> tranny children and now the next step seems to be acceptance of pedos (*rebranded* as minor attracted persons)

@Deleted User That's the exact explanation I'd use, but I simply don't think it would be enough. Just think about how conservatives support Zionism but think "anyone should be able to become American if they share our values"

@TMatthews It wasn't always like that, for 99% of our history we were an extension of Europe and a European people. Just like the Germans, Italians or Poles. The whole reason why IE exists is so that we can reclaim our birthright and our nation.

We could frame it as: "Promoting policies that favor a more homogeneous America akin to Japan"

Making an emergency retreat for an outlet to Continue this convo brb

i always say IE is an American heritage organization like Descendants of the Mayflower or Sons of the American Revolution

@Virgil Barring mass deportation though, it's not going back. We can't even get politicians to stop immigration and even if we did tomorrow we'd still become a minority

@TMatthews OK, what does that show? - that our views are natural and a complete system, more or less - to be a Establishment Conservative is to deeply embrace hypocritical positions on a daily basis.

They might have the airwaves now, but they didn't always, and won't in the future - if the rising nationalist sentiment here and abroad is anything to show for.

@Asatru Artist - MD Right but that can work both ways, if embracing a more marketable name is cucking than using slippery slope logic in reverse, one could say that having s swastika logo would make us idealogically pure and uncucked

Swastika =/= race though. It's is a symbol of power.

IMO, getting attached at the hip too much to the Trumpian movement could put us in for a wild ride. If we have to be Trump apologists at retcon stuff like TPUSA it may very well get us in a different manner of guilt by association. I like Trump as much as the next Identitarian, but I do not trust him enough to tie ourselves too close to the Trumpian phenomenon.

Trump is absolutely not someone we should be tied to

Trump is but temporary, our people's existence should be forever, if we can help it

@Deleted User I certainly hope you're right. It just seems a shame to me for us to throw away the whole brand because of one stupid interview by a guy who's no longer in the organization. Maybe my perspective is different because I played close attention to what Patrick did to distance IE from that before I joined

Instead we are gonna grab the normie by the optics

@TMatthews Non-whites have always existed in America but they were seperate. Until the very late 20th century. They weren't considered part of our nation just a foreign people occupying our land.

as someone who was 100% on the Trump Train in 2015/16, i agree @Jacob

@Sam Anderson Lol

Aptly put.

We shouldn't be tied to him no. But his base and his movement which his campaign created is an untapped resource.

We don't have to rebrand to tap into the source, though, (imo)

I'm sorry, but, in a lot of people's minds, Trump just comes off as dumb, it's not entirely unreasonable. There's a lot of friends who actually seen to understand my anti immigration arguments, but nothing I say will make them like Trump.

@Virgil I don't disagree, but this foreign people used to be 12% of the population, not almost 40% and climbing

I don't disagree. I don't personally think he's brilliant either.

Im saying the people like tucker Carlson and anne Coulter have become very intelligent and well spoken people who align with the America first agenda

And these are powerful allies as are their viewers and fans.

And right now I don't think we can court them.

Likewise Ann Coulter is great, but she went so far hard on the Pro-Trump bit that she has to kind of ride the tiger so to speak. The Trump forever people are all boomers. While I would not mind them cutting some checks for us, they are not gonna be central to our message.

We have enough people and agency to be our own thing. Not ride the coattails of another.

Trump needs to pull all the strings to have a chance at helping our cause, which he hasn't done in 2 years. He's going to lose the house and might lose reelection in 2020. Not looking good. Democrats won the 2016 popular vote by 3 million votes, we just squeaked through the electoral college. The Dems dominate the normies. Texas is expected to go blue by 2024. The Republican party will likely return to a "win over the Hispanics" party soon after Trump leaves office.

Blue Triangle gang gang forever.

@TMatthews Doesn't really matter if they're 12 or 40 percent. The core genetic stock if the American people still exists regardless. Should Greeks have given up on Greece because it was occupied by Turks. Should the Castillians have given up on Spain because of the moorish demographics?

I don't necessarily agree we have the people or the power to stand alone right now.

Frankly.

We're still Fledgling and we have baggage. Pair that with a rather obscure academic concept and it loses interest

I agree that our message and methods aren't specifically pro-Trumpians... but we never even tried to target them, either.

Our demographic are the Whites who can help fight for our future, not saturday night beer drinkers while they watch football

Do we have any musicians in IE? I have an idea to suggest if so.

@Kingfish no offense of course

those are literally the same people

Tucker Carlson is great. He has a different target audience, though. His whole routine is about appealing to boomers and nudging them towards us.

I do support co-opting civic nationalism, but we need to have groups ready for people who've decided they want to go beyond that.

What James Allsup does is really great with his appeal to American nationalism, but we need variety. We can't have *just* James Allsups. We need Jared Taylors, we need Red Ices, etc. We need to have a whole system going Diversity of skills and methods is our strength.

@John Riggs Is it Identitarian boy bands?

@Virgil The Greeks actually did give up Ionia and agreed to population transfers. As for Spain, it took centuries of war to expel the Moors, and they were primarily just a ruling elite that was small in number.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that America is headed towards civil war, but I sure am not looking forward to it or advocating it. At the end of the day, those aren't good optics comparisons

Check this shit out. Boomers lol.

rise and shine evro-peans

I tried to get a couple of our AZ guys to do that. We failed to get it off the ground

what are you doing for your people today

The late stage Roman Republic is full of good anecdotes to compare the two.

Apparently drugs make you more xenophilic.

So smoking dope WILL make you a dirty hippie. Red Foreman did nothing wrong.

Lol

I forget who said it, but essentially the logic was, becoming explicitly right wing and doing explicitly right wing policies and stances like immigration and cultural conservatism will *implicitly* push our Identitarian interests forward.

Apparently, those who are heavily drugged by opiods are generally more accepting towards an outgroup. Opiod crisis anyone?

Might have been alt hype

@Rabbidsith Oxytocin is different than Opioids.

@John Riggs you called?

Not exactly. More of a folk song. But there's a great Swedish identitarian song that I think could be easily translated into English and recorded. This translation is not perfect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD0M3IAfDE4

@Sam Anderson Fair enough. However, I would argue that opiods cause similar effects.

Soma takes many forms

@TMatthews That's not quite what I was getting at. The point was that if the Greeks and the Spanish had given their nations up and accepted multiculturalism as integral parts of those nations, they wouldn't exist today.

I do think presenting ourselves as part of the broader right-wing coalition is a good thing, but I would hesitate to take stances on issues that don't pertain directly to demographics or identity

Well, I can't sing. Sorry

@TMatthews Minimal consensus ftw

Doing that would be nice, but even when Laura Ingrham talks about demographics she is immediately berated as a White Nationalist soo

@Virgil While that is true, Reconquista America is questionable optics, imo

And then the left is hated more and more as agitators and their words of derision lose Merit.

This goes back to the whole "they are gonna call you a Nazi anyways". Now that does not mean break out the armbands. But just let their accusation fall flat.

Yeah we can combine the unapologetic attitude with a more America first directed rhetoric

refuse to accept the framing, be offensive not defensive

Because frankly we're trying to normalize a concept more radical than simply America first, when America first hasn't even been Normalized

Implicitly pushing stuff works best when there's something to be pushed towards. Setting up front groups could be a good idea. Literal communists do it all the time, and they're doing great in the culture war.

Our name and logo are not gone in the slightest, in my opinion

Smaller front groups would be great, thought of that earlier

@Jacob When we have tons of Jewish money to waste on expendable people let me know

The key for me is to simply focus on saying "the left is anti-white" and "nonwhites will always practice identity politics"
Once the normie accepts those, you can make the case for why white identity politics is inevitable and necessary

@Jacob this is what I mean. We make far more progress entering already established groups or groups with different ideas and shifting them to us. We need to direct already established infrastructure and influence not try to start with nothing I agree with you 100% this is why every member should be in every political group or cultural group they can be in.

<:chad:359013583469805568> Chad dad Allsup firin' another shot across Lil' Ben's bow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfnAMMpW_o?vq=hd1080

@Sam Anderson Ever heard of thing thing called a "bizness" - I think that's how you spell it, pretty new concept.