I'm watching the Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson discussion and its fucking stupid.

Religiously naive tradcon vs Predictable Naive Libtard

Its not challenging at all lmao

Peterson speaks out of both sides of his mouth expecting us to believe one over the other, like a true hypocrite.

All the while Sam Harris makes the same arguments that every good atheist has heard since he was 12

really? I think it’s pretty good, I’ve been watching them today too.

Well... I've studied philosophy and psychology in a university so maybe that's why lol

I've studied philosophy of religion and pretty much knew everything that was going to fly out of Harris' mouth

I think that discussion is well above most people’s intelligence level

Perhaps...

Peterson's defenses of his faith position were pitiful

all the while when Harris opened his mouth i had to try very hard to keep myself awake lol

I understand where Jordan is coming from, its hard to pinpoint exactly where he is wrong. I think Peterson is wrong just because my beliefs align more with Sam’s but I haven’t finished part 2 yet

I love listening to Sam though he’s hilarious.

His analogies hit hard

One thing that I've learned from studying is that if it is hard to pinpoint where an argument is wrong, then the argument is not well understood, even by the person making it.

Peterson is no exception to this.

I agree. This is a difficult topic though. Been having arguments about its for thousands of years.

It’s a much more productive debate/conversation than most I’ve seen though.

So, that begs the question. If any argument can be made to be so strong that it becomes increasingly more difficult, if not impossible to point to a false premise, why believe in any argument?

And on the flip side, if one argument can be looked at as having all true premises and a true conclusion, yet any premise can be objected as being false, how can any argument be truly said to be sound?

Validity: an argument is valid if and only if the premises do not yield a false conclusion.

Soundness: an argument is sound if and only if all of the premises being true necessitate the conclusoin being true.

The problem here is that we have no idea if any premises of any argument are actually true so long as any premise of any argument can be objected as false.

In order for a premise of any argument to be true, it must rule out any and all possibility of it being false.

But, since it is not the case that any argument can rule out any of its premises are not false, we have a problem.

It remains to be seen if even a God(s) could solve this issue...

P> Q
Q>R
R>S
S>T
Therefore, T

Yet, even the first premise of the argument can be objected as being false.

Okay so how do you apply that to Peterson’s argument

Well... if you want to apply that to Peterson's argument, just plug and chug lol

He makes several claims attempting to defend the truth of scripture, yet when he claims truth, he cannot rule out every objection to any premise of his argument as not being false.

For example, let's say that premise 1 has a probability of being 5% false. Well, so long as there is a probability of a premise being false, it by definition cannot be true because true premises are not possible to be false.

A probability of a thing is simply the margin of error that can be allowed, and as long as there is a margin of error, we cannot know if anything in an argument is true because the supposed truth value of a premise would need to be independent of any error margin.

In other words, to say that something is true is to suggest that there are no other possibilities for it to not be the case... yet if there is always the possibility for it to not be the case, then it is not independent of any and all margins of error.

Quite the paradox...

Peterson attempted to use field data found by Jane Goodall as a building block of a metaphysics, yet metaphysics is just as specious as epistemology, logic, and ethics.

Let me ask this of the metaphysicians... 1) why does metaphysics matter? 2) what exactly is supposed to be different when analyzing and comparing differing metaphysical theories?

With regards to my second question concerning the metaphysicians, I would also like to inquire into how exactly it is that there are differing metaphysics and what exactly is supposed to happen if I were to accept one over another?

For example, if I were to accept or believe Aristotle's hylomorphism compared to Cartesian Dualism or even a Materialism, all the while holding a cup in my hand, how does any of that change the cup?

If the cup is only able to be consistently constituted within a framework of hylomorphism because it "makes more sense" than if it were constituted under a framework of Cartesian Dualism, why does it matter, if the cup still looks the same, feels the same, and I can drink from it the same no matter what metaphysical label I decide to buy into while using it?

What exactly is supposed to change depending upon what metaphysical lens or label I decide to apply?

Just my thoughts lmao

@Ajay I honestly don't like what Peterson ever really says. He relies too much on an authoritative outlook of psychology and for that his arguments are weak, for any and all authority can be questioned.

Wow

I’m not sure I can respond to that lol but uh, nice philosophy lesson

I also think that he is too trad as well lmao

Don't worry about a response.

Yes, too trad

I'm tired anyway

It was good chatting with you, my dude.

Yeah for sure!

gtg

See ya later

check out my videos if you want to see more

YT?

yep

Gotcha

i only have 6 right now, but I will be back eventually

Okay will do 👍

👌

@Seven Of Swords ad victoriam

Dear brother's what is the mosr blue pilled country in the world?

England or Sweden

Definitely England

It's a very strange phenomenal that feminit groups support Islam

Espcelly in Sweadn and England

Feminisem is a disease and Women subconsciously long for patriarchy

@Kwi Gon Gym Ad Victoriam!

<:bacon:472133842342379561> 🔥 🥓

How are you gentlemen doing today?

Fine and you m8?

Sunday, the sabbath day?

Enjoying some time off

@Happy Humble Hermit Gentlemen is a formal code word for Beta Male

@IceRGodZ my mistake, how are you alpha slayers doing today

LOL

I think females have a kink for doors don't you think. Holding the door for females all the time?

Nah, they're just entitled

lol

True though

How is everyone tonight?

Doing good

Brainstorming on a book I haven’t started writing yet

prepping for getting my drivers permit

Good luck

I’ve had terrible luck with that, hopefully you do better than I have

lets hope

You’ll most definitely do better than I have

I'm watching part 2 of the Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson discussion because I hate myself, apparently.

@Andrew The Meme King Dang Meme King, You Must Be Young AF

I ***am***

are you being given responsibility , or are you Pursuing Debt and Travel right now

the prior option

i see, Sounds Horrible

ayo. anyone here?

ye

hello

how's it going?

chillin man

OW deathmatch

nice

I prefer cs tbh

word i used to play

never got past gold nova 4

lmao I'm still silver 3

nice

well ive been playing FPS games off and on for years

are there any other good MGTOW discord channels

tfm's

other than that I can't think of any

nice is that turd flinging monkey

yeah

can you invite me?

can't

you have to wait for one of his stream announcement videos and he'll have a link there

when does that happen

I'm not sure

we in voice chat yee

Let me check the schedule

thanks

Saturday and Wednesday

so where do i go on wednesday?

Tfm's YouTube channel

am i silenced?

No, we just don't have links enabled

oh ok

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMwtASguRU0

I'm sorry ***WHAT***

that's weird man

I vote child abuse

I guess I'll watch Stardusk's video with HuMan

Stardusk is pretty much the only respectable MGTOW content producer that consistently makes content. The rest of them are either just meh or dogshit, imo.

Barbarossa, Coterie, Spetsnaz, and Paul Proteus was where it was at. Now they pretty much don't make videos lol

Nico Choski was really good too

@Iheanacho those interview reactions feel soo fake

@ZODD Why so?

the audience (pubic) is real, but anyone who talks is fake as fuck

Even the simps chearing that boy for being married to a grown woman?

yeah, i could believe that is staged

Honestly, part of me hopes it is. It would give me some hope that this would not be accepted in personal reality.

i don't think anyone gives a fuck about that social experiment, thats how you make a REAL STATEMENT

that channel just wanted more reactions

But something tells me what happened is still close to the truth. The fact is no one cared on the fact that the kid was married to that woman. When it was the girl married to the man, people were confronting and verbally attacking him for it.

It did not take long to get backlash. Despite that this was a foreigner too.

when they see a OLD woman with a Kid, they think its just her kid

Even when they are married?

it doesn't look like they are married tho

You're fucking kidding me right?

if they were having a wedding , sure

She's wearing a bride gound, and the boy's wearing a wedding tux.

but they are walking out in a street with COSPLAY ON duh

its not a wedding, so interpretations are EVERYWHERE

What about this?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KldFGgUTqKA

i don't have to watch that

the young girl is Fertile, so OF COURSE WHITE KNIGHTS gotta Cum to the Rescue and Tell all those Whores they are trying to impress

Double STANDARD Videos are Fucking Pointless , Cuz we are trying to educate that men have it bad to women, But Women only Care about the Videos that make them LOOK GOOD.

Curious question? Are you even MGTOW?

I like Specific Mgtow Content Creators, But to say im Mgtow means Something different to everyone , So im just gonna say im independent , I really Don't know how to Classify mgtow tbh. Cuz there is no definitive mgtow to me i don't wanna Classify myself in a group where i can be labeled based on if the term changes or not due to social media.

So you are on the fence about where your stances are?

Well, to be blunt, probably, im Pretty Young, there are alot of stances i haven't discovered yet.

Well thing is, what you have said was perpetuating a double-standard/sexist bias against men.

I showed you the original video and you didn't even want to watch it and presumed fertility and white-knighting before discovering the full story (You don't know if that girl is truly fertile yet, but the latter is part of the problem I'll admit).
Yet, when I showed you a video of the gender roles reversed, you were quick to presume it was all fake and they were wearing cosplay. I can easily imagine a misandrist or a feminist making that same excuse.

The experiments are essential and important to MGTOW, as they help prove the problem they explain about misandry and more reason to go your own way. How does this not benefit MGTOW?!?

Your youth could explain it. Not sure how old you are but what I posted is very important to men in general, not just MGTOW.

it doesn't help mgtow, because the double standard of the video is about marriage , Mgtow is against marriage

the video is promoting marriage

The videos are about combating child marriage.

its still marriage

Yes, but illegal marriage. Pro or anti-marriage, it still is a major problem that underage kids are being confined to an adult marriage, something that should be illegalized to begin with.

Hell, the child marriages happening here was a new thing I actually did overlook. I am surprised it is still legal in some US states. I thought this was outlawed decades ago.

This shit happens in my native Nigeria and Africa.

Frankly , i don't give a fuck, Thats how Mgtow i am

Well you should. That's our boys they're fucking with. OUR youth being destroyed by marriage against their consent and will. Unlike adult men, those boys don't have much choice (if any at all).

Not giving a fuck about this is not MGTOW, it's neutral nihilism.

More so defeatism.

And I've been there before.

Listen, it Doesn't Benefit me To Stop either one of Those couples of Getting Married, there are better ways to spread your mgtow idealism than those type of social experiments, the old man marrying a 12 year old, just makes men look bad.

LOL WAIT YOU MEAN THE LITTLE GIRL MARRYING THE OLD MAN IN PUBLIC?

The old man was gonna get dropped

Same for the woman. It is disgusting to see any of that. I don't expect MGTOW to fight and resolve men's issues, that is always the job for the Men's Rights Movement, but you guys would usually call out this stuff for what it is and make light to it. A signal that even the MRM could use as a base to resolve the issues on the forefront. To be honest, it would actually benefit both genders to ensure this is federally illegalized.

To discover someone who is supposedly a MGTOW not even care about this issue is just... Fucking wow... Can make one question if MGTOW is truly a path to men's freedom. It's honestly demoralizing.

Anytime man, Iv'e Got plenty of input for everyone, if they need it.

I am 35% Alpha, 35% Beta, 28% omega, 2% black pill

All around baby

this alpha beta shit is dogshit

just labels used to make men anxious

Thing is I am very black pill myself. I an not even MGTOW either, I am a progressive nihilist - unlike the neutrals, I'm not lazy and defeatist. Even if I wanted to, I can't even afford to be. My goals strongly advice against it.
I've been supporting you guys for a few years now, I don't want to end up losing hope in MGTOW like I did with egalitarianism.

whatever

the black pill is shit now

someone doesn't need to be labeled only as beta. Can it depend on situations

losing hope in mgtow ?? what does that even mean??

lol

The MGTOW philosophy.

@Seven Of Swords , what was black pill? and what is it today?

i mean just succumbing to being labeled as alpha or beta at all is bullshit

black pill is harsher than red pill

The black pill is an element of nihilism. It's a state for those entering nihilism, especially for the first time. It reveals a much more darker reality of truth than MGTOW does.

@ZODD The black pill was supposed to be a sort of hyper-aware nihilist take on things once you find out that the red pill just gets darker. You realize that the whole reproductive game is a sham and that the epistemic and psychological pitfalls cannot solve all of our human problems.

Or, WGTOW XD

A dark truth about human nature and life value.

Now its coopted by incels as just a realization that women will never want them and that all else is cope.

complete dogshit now.

Right, What should it be then instead?

WGTOW - WIGtow? Hair in head, plastic? Fake? And may- ok screw this IT HAS WOMEN IN THE TITLE

That's a load of bull. incels did not co-opt the red pill. Some of them did try though, but that does not mean it is useless.

is there a definitive encyclopedia

And its also been coopted by fascists and Nick Land types as a way to purge the earth of inferior races so that the strong will succeed.

They have been doing so with the red pill as well. Not to mention the PUAs are doing so.

pick up artists? LMSANDFACE made videos of them failing to pick up women LMAO

That's why all metaphorical pills are dogshit

Yes, The Red Pill subreddit for instance is not even a MGTOW sanctuary, it's mostly PUAs trying to pickup bitches and defile the meaning of red pill.

once a short Asian dude tries to seduce 3 girls, and they get quiet and uncomfortable, game over. You Italian plumber

I had no idea it was different from the TRP of Youtube and MGTOW.

LMS is incel fuel

wait what?

or from incel perspectives, suifuel lmao

Think about it. Who else would really care most about how they look? People that don't know if they are ugly. And guess who is more likely to be ugly? Incels, they admit it themselves. So, in order to find out how they can know if they are ugly, they watch LMS and it just ends up fueling inceldom.

Its cope, but of a different breed.

As for the black pill, yes there are some fascists trying to co-opt and corrupt it, but it still does not mean it Is useless. See, that thinking is what enables defeatism. I could do the same with the red pill because of all the stinky-ass PUAs trying to co-opt it. I could even say the same with MGTOW for the similar reasons (tradcon simps, incels, and PUAs trying to co-opt that too).

"Muh defeatism"

The black pill is suppose to be a reality of human nature and questing the true purpose of life.

Sorry, pal eveyone is defeated as soon as their silly parents decided to force them into this world.

There is no truth to the black pill...

A part of the black pill is skepticism toward all world views and beliefs.

For once you take the black pill, you realize that such fantastic notions such as "truth" or "knowledge" are simply constructs with no justification.

And there is an irony here, a paradox of sort.

The pill defeats itself, as all pills do.

@Iheanacho , you said you gave up Egalitarianism which is Political philosophy, where as Mgtow is just Self ownership, They are both pretty different if you ask me. LOL. i don't think you can lose faith in your own self ownership, other wise you can't really say you accomplished anything. i think your faith in mgtow is just a day dream tbh.

@Seven Of Swords , i think you need to word your paragraph of: simply constructs with no justifications/ more Simply put as , truth doesn't matter

Whatever works for you

you make it to complex for Zodd's Brain ... HAHA

Its ok lmao

@Iheanacho Is writing a Doctoral thesis on the black-pill lmao

i want to read it

@Seven Of Swords
Except the black pill is important. I am skeptical about all world views and beliefs. That is what leads to the state of neutral nihilism or worse case, regressive nihilism (where you start hating and resenting near everyone and everything). The goal with progressive nihilism is to control and tame the overwhelming effects of the black pill and make it into a life purpose. By default I have no reason to exist on this planet, once I reach a certain age, I must construct a reason to justify my existence - that reason for me being game dev.

@ZODD No, it's not a God-fucking day dream! Let's be honest, MGTOW is not just all self-ownership mate. It also dives into political discussion and views on women and society, like some of their views on hypergamy, the voting system, and the welfare system - they all still have a political ring to them. You are right I won't lose faith in self-ownership but I am still capable of losing respect for the philosophy and those who practice it.

@Iheanacho Why do you need to be convinced that you need a justification for your existence?

its called self verification theory, im gonna make a video on it this year.

@ZODD I remember us talking about that on xbox lol

^

Nihilism when channeled properly ensured eternal vigilance and self-moderation. People need justification to motivate themselves to pursue personal goals, else they risk falling into hedonism, or worse, regressive state - which leads to crime, suicide, or even mass-murder - Just go ask the Columbine shooters who succumbed to regressive nihilism.

@Iheanacho Some How im getting an animal Farm type vibe from you right now. LOL

Even HHH has explained this on his videos, hedonism can easily be abused and is a pit-fall for disaster.

Depends on what you mean by hedonism.

There are many strands of hedonism.

Have you heard of the Cyreanics?

i have not