Hello @Men Are Human

my Avatar is not from Fallout

but I suppose it does represent being a 'gamer' as its a concept art for a very old game called Freedom Fighters

which was about a New York plumber leading a guerilla war against a Soviet occupation of the East Coast

from the makers of Hitman, before they stopped making anything except Hitman

is being a gamer bad?

sorry, I'm just super self-conscious about being in this discord for some reason

the comments on the invite thread were strangely negative and I wasn't sure what to expect through the door

oh wow, I hadn't noticed they were both from the same person

mostly I like the idea of casual conversation

with like minded individuals

I don't think casually posting stuff in a major forum that 200 000 people subscribe to is polite

hasn't happened on the sub reddit yet

the problem is that an entire generation has been programmed to believe women are disempowered and need their support, so there is an instant reaction to 'support' any women or women's right issue because it 'needs' that support

the same is not true of men's issues, which are barely in public awareness

I don't hold it against my friends when they immediately reject opposition to women's rights issues because they just don't understand. usually when I'm calm and explain it to them they eventually see the middle ground and understand my viewpoint

but it can take awhile to get them out of their defensive posture

its just the hill we have to face when tackling the injustice and hate present in Feminism, they've spent decades building that hill and now only have to defend it

Aloha

unless... they really do...

I don't get it, and the fonts don't match, did you edit the original?

those are TERFs, Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists

they are the craziests of the crazies

they believe males transitioning to females are men trying to infiltrate the female movement, and that females transitioning to males are betraying the female movement

they also believe all men should be kept emprisoned and that all an erect penis is rape

during her lifetime my Aunt had over 20 abortions, after the last one they required her to get her tubes tied or she would not be given another one

oh its worse than that, she tried to convince my Mom to abort me

I was commenting on the idea that women rely on abortion for birth control

and since abortion is a decision that is removed from Men entirely, I consider it a Men's Rights issue

I think a Father should have a say in abortion

a father shouldn't be able to force an abortion, but he should absolutely be able to prevent one

of course, only when there is no medical threat to the mother

but there are millions of abortions which have no medical threats to the mother at all

those are personal choices

THOSE choices, a father should have a say in

because his child is being stolen from him

I do not feel like that is enough of a reason to deny a father the right to have his child

I do admit to bias on this subject, because my father literally saved my life from my Aunt

if my Father had no intervened, I would have been aborted

my Mother has two sisters and a brother, Four siblings total

I am the ONLY child from their entire generation

because my Father saved me

we just disagree, its fine

its a prickly issue

I just wanted to make sure I said my side

honestly, the issue is a little too grey for my tastes...

you have serious medical situations, where the fetus is literally killing the mother, thats clear cut

but you have other situations like... low income single mother that doesn't know who the father is

or a wife that doesn't want to have to deal with children getting secret abortions while her husband thinks they are 'trying'

when its non-medical its a very grey issue

some situations are almost abuse to the fathers... from my perspective

or situations are probably for the best

its just such an ocean of situations

when it is a personal choice... its really just case by case basis on whether it seems 'right'

but I feel like barring fathers from any say in the matter is an injustice

but I couldn't tell you how much of a say they should have

this feels like a different issue

thats a question of abortion as a whole

I'm just talking about whether fathers have a right for a voice in the abortion decision

does your lab partner have a right to influence your choice of your away that computer?

you worked on the program together

its your computer but its their work as well that went into it

ah, I see what you mean InsaneCaterpilla

I don't disagree with your points, I'm just sad that a quirk of biology gives a woman so much power in the decision to have a child

suicide is immensely destructive to those in your life

I find it hard to relate to the gender issues happening in India

its a very different culture and I don't think the issues happening there are equatable to issues happening elsewhere

yet it has some of the most brutal and publicly acceptable incidents of rape in the world

considering basically every feminist I've met doesn't use the dictionary definition of the word I'd say she has a point

I feel like the dictionary definition of feminism is still accurate

that is the dictionary definition of feminism... a women's rights movement

they haven't changed the dictionary definition have they?

its right in the word.... FEM

wow you're right... dictionaries aren't all giving the same definition... this is madness

I will never accept 'feminism' as a 'equality for everyone' word

dictionary.com (which is the source I use) doesn't list the 'all sexes' definition, but Merriam-Webster has "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes" as the number one definition above "organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests"

this is very disturbing

they just dismiss what I'm saying as some sort of psychosis and then start worrying I've joined a hate group

they 'worry' about me when I openly question 'feminism'

I hope its the heavy brainwashing

I mean most of the feminist I know have been friends of mine for over a decade... and they are reasonable honest people... but it can take me hours to discuss a topic with them until they see that their point is bias and a little bit hateful

but then a few days later when I see them again its like all that progress is forgotten

its... incredibly frustrating and disheartening

I'm very afraid of losing my entire friend circle that identifies as feminist, so much so that I now refuse to speak with any of them on the subject for fear of how badly the conversation will turn

about a month ago they were talking about Male Suicide rates and how men need more support, which was an unintentional trap because I actually started talking a lot about it with them

but then they all started talking about how happy they were I was comfortable discussing 'feminism' again

and I basically blew up

it was the end of a really stressful month and I just couldn't handle such an obvious male issue being co-opted by the feminist movement

for several weeks I kept getting worried phone calls from them because they are all super worried I'm going to join a Nazi movement

because thats what anti-feminism is to them

it needs boatloads more study

until feminist start recognizing the hatred and bigotry within their own ranks and start doing something about it I feel no qualms with holding the whole movement responsible for its worst parts

they have no internal checks at all, so the whole concept of 'not my feminism' is bullshit until they hold their own accountable

no, but they can at least speak up against hatred in their own ranks

I've never seen a feminist hold another accountable for spreading hate

have you, ever, had a conversation with another feminist about the fact that some feminist messages are hateful or promote hatred

just anyone, has the conversation ever come up, have you been apart of or seen anyone in a feminist group speak with any sort of self awareness or questioning about whether something might be of questionable moral standing

because I haven't, and I've looked

and its the most disturbing thing to me about 4th Wave Feminism