but I feel like barring fathers from any say in the matter is an injustice

You shouldn't be forced to be financially responsible for a child, I apply this to both genders. I support abortion in general, not extreme cases like late term, because of the strain pregnancy puts on a woman's body and mind and a foetus does not have consciousness or sentience.

but I couldn't tell you how much of a say they should have

A foetus is an object, it is not a person. Should I not throw away an old computer because AI could one day develop?

this feels like a different issue

Ai probably wouldn't care about where it's hosted

thats a question of abortion as a whole

This is more like.... cutting your nails

I'm just talking about whether fathers have a right for a voice in the abortion decision

Something that is both human and alive

does your lab partner have a right to influence your choice of your away that computer?

I think the difficult part of the issue is that I don't want someone to force someone else to carry a child

you worked on the program together

The discussion in <#512584678314606613> turned to abortion as a whole, since it was mentioned someone who had 20 abortions should be on trial for murder and was agreed with

its your computer but its their work as well that went into it

But I also don't want father to have no say

the fetus isnt an object you stupid fucker

I disagree with abortion being murder because that makes miscarriages manslaughter

its alive and shows breain activity at 2 months

And a woman who just lost a baby she wanted shouldn't have to go to jail on top of that

ah, I see what you mean InsaneCaterpilla

Before birth, the father paid a minimal part in the creation of the child, being honest. And I'm absolutely not of the opinion that fathers are unimportant in a child's upbringing. It's not been a totally collaberative process, so your comparison is inaccurate. The potential father does not bare the strains of body and mind, the woman does, and if she chooses not to accept this burden she shouldn't have to

I agree with that

I think... I think what I would want the most is that if the father wanted the baby to be aborted and the mother decides to keep it, he can't be asked to pay child support

i think thats fair

definately @Avistew

I don't disagree with your points, I'm just sad that a quirk of biology gives a woman so much power in the decision to have a child

Yeah

why should the only out for a father be suicide

It is sad yea, but in hoping advances in genetics can make things better in the future like an artificial womb for gay couples or anyone else

I guess the only thing guys can do if they don't want kids is do their best to avoid the pregnancy and hope for the best

i watched a 3D recreation of what an abortion looks like from within the womb and its basically using sharpened metal tongs to rip the fetus limb from limb

thats just legalized manslaughter by technicality

Most abortions are earlier than that, you just take a pill that causes a miscarriage

You're talking about a late-term abortion

its still fucked up

how am i supposed to know if some broad im dating has aborted fetus ghosts up in her pussy

Maybe, but if the woman wants to get rid of the baby it's better than drinking or getting into an accident on purpose and possibly getting a baby with health problems and stuff

i dont see the after birth topic as an MR issue, that said, i think it will look very bad. i actually think many feminists will oppose it

Well, I don't believe in haunted uteruses so that helps

i aint sticking my dick in a wet cave of ghosts