so, anyone else agree critique is dead? sir baudrillard has shown me the light

damn i guess it's all CIA accounts on rn bummersville

yo Mr. E i think you have no say no one is in an ideology since concepts just don't work, no?

anyone here like baudrillard

all the different distinctions don't really hold water. it's just meatbag politics

it's not exactly apathy it's just debating the definition of fascism for the 100th time makes no sense. when people get spooked they form in groups around whatever shit. nation makes sense because it's been a thing recently. race makes sense because skin color is obvious. boom. i just feel like it's more evolutionary psych than "material conditions" phrased that way seems to me drawing to many distinctions

i mean left people do the in group thing too. hence i think it makes more sense to look at patterns that cut across political ideologies than to focus on defining the "bad" ones

also i just hate how ppl are like "fascism is back!" it's like it's 90 years later, shit is all pomo and all, everything is recycled.

in my utopia people would still be fucking mean to each other it's just that it wouldn't inflict bodily harm and everyone would have "enough." but i mean when i think about humans going on for 1M years I feel like the goal is to find non-destructive ways for us to humiliate each other since we love it so much

i mean shit makes sense. people grasp for the concepts that seem to match

and neologisms are confusism

we just add neo- and post- to shit because history has just kept going from the relatively euclidean early 20th century

yeah and then people blame other people for the fact that the world doesn't fit their idealist box

for example many westerners were raised to think we had just won history and our place can never be challenged. like what that's retarded. now they get mad at others because they don't just get to be comfortable lambo

I don't believe in relativism because that implies people have their individual/group truth, which I would also deny them

I would be more with camus, the world is absurd and indifferent to us that's just how it is

I mean everyone wishes for the good old days when people "knew what was what" but it led to war because people *have never agreed on that*

i mean there's no line between theory and culture

and politics for that matter

it's all narratives, and narratives rely on phantom concepts. but they stick because of something beyond words, the satisfaction you get from being a part

I think a big problem is that the rulers are afraid of letting go because they will be punished. I support Camus in calling for the global abolition of the death pentalty

life in prison is on the table obvi

but I fear nuclear war to prevent socialism when there's no need for that

the ruling class is already divided, some are smart enough to see socialism but they still feel relatively powerless. I'm just saying we need a face saving mechanism for them

yeah but that's exactly what they are building, a good spot

or how about bioweapons where only they have the vaccine. gross

spooks?

He doesn't believe in dividing the ruling class?

i know who he is generally can you just answer the question lmao

ok well how about this my egoistic goal is to live on a moon of jupiter. to do that I need to resolve social contradictions before they lead to death and get access to the tech which gets me to space

i seriously wanna live near jupiter so bad

lambo

it would just be really chill ok

oh its ok

word i had the best dream last night wish the same to you

right, but then spook is a spook, all concpets are spooks

I'm into it, my name is a bhuddist guy who says similar stuff

and i love baudrillard. it is a weird question what you do with that exactly

lambo

but it's similar to early marx talking about "sensuousness" that's gesturing beyond concepts. but then some amrxists hate early marx so i remain confuzzled

for example Althusser

and Lenin yeah

some people are like anything before the german ideology, no thank you

I'm just not that well read so it's hard for me to know what's going on

hahahaha the blind leading the blind here

oh yeah for sure. audiobooks are sick also. i actually speak german i could read marx in german

tried the audiobook it went ok

lambo DAS nice

what's your strand of marxism/politics? we don't have flairs here I'm sad

I'm a Baudrillardian but no one says that. People think of it as postmodernism but what's beyond concepts (the ineffable) is really important to me so it makes it hard to say.

But I definitely want a social revolution, something like global governance even if its not a state, no war, everyone has enough, and we just shit post and travel the stars

Well different people might emphasize different things

basically he picks up on Bataille and Mauss ideas about giving gifts as the basis for economics

we are wanting to give the best gift because it shows we are powerful, so similar to Foucault's biopolitics the powerful are so because they "give us" our captive lives here

And so he criticized Marx for thinking the economic is at the bottom of everything, although then Marxists will say Baudrillard misunderstood how Marx meant that

my angle isn't that I need to prove Marx is wrong or anything Baudrillard is just what got me to where I am now *shrugs*

haha long before welfare

well for example people get together and form social relationships, eventually there's a new generation and you are leaving things to them

this is beyond economics becuase there must be some reason you align your interest with your children even though you will die

Well then you are still locked in a gift relationship because your parents gave you life and their ancestors to them and so on

One interesting thing is his analysis of terrorism like 9/11, he points out that more than just killing us they want to humiliate us

so this is like a social relation, not just an extermination idea. so I think it's about cultivating a mentality in people where they want to engage with the larger society and not just murder people or just accumulate

terrorists, like al qaeda and stuff

they didn't just want to kill people, they wanted to inflict a "symbolic wound"

in the gift economy, the challenge is always to find a better gift to give back

oh ok you're referring to inside job theories?

oh ok

I agree

Baudrilalrd points out that if islam here hegemonic there would be terrorism against islam

global power is like a gift, you can get a gift you don't want, because "the given" is the world it has made

in marxist terms the spread of the commodity system

as the outcome of Western imperialism

so has this system lmao but if muslims invented the maxim gun first it would not have hattered

mattered*

Our culture is different too. We had guns fam

global hegemony is like batman. when batman shows up, the villains all come out to challenge him

when something dominates the world system, then resistance seeps from all sectors

yes yes hypothetical

absolutely, but muslims can still blame a larger power

9/11 was great for the US because then the US gets to claim its a victim, which is rich for the most powerful country ever

we have hegemony of the commodity form, everyone is forced to participate in what is functionally one economy

so this is like a gift which is given to us, a gift we don't want but we are powerless because we cannot refuse it (seemingly)

All baudrillard really says then is that it's about turning power against itself, and also that systems get more fragile as they get more perfect

so "the system" is definitely vulnerable. it's just we play into its hands perhaps by emphasizing all these different good guy/ bad guy schemes

it's more fatalist than deterministic but its like the same

and he likes talking about destiny

but to my nihilism is just a way of saying the world is beyond categories, can't we agree on that?

or what do yall mean by nihilism

damn dude glad to hear it. clouscard seems legit you just pointed him out to me

But scientific categories are all provisional, there's no scientific "knowledge" only predictions within our time-scale

i think the problem is that death is not real

i think the reason we are here is simply that there is no reason we shouldn't be

all possibilities are actual

so here we are

if you suicide maybe you will just wind up in a different situation which also blows

that claim has no evidence

so dismiss it. boom

>So do we really have a choice? Or do we just obey what our mind perceives to be reasonable course in action?

I would phrase this as you respond to the challenge of the world at each moment

that's pretty chill dude, as you know JB wrote about seduction

sounds like there is an OG here