my angle isn't that I need to prove Marx is wrong or anything Baudrillard is just what got me to where I am now *shrugs*

Giving gifts? Essentially more welfare and care for the citizens?

Like less proletarian oriented.

haha long before welfare

But go on for a more pragmatic approach?

Enlighten me

well for example people get together and form social relationships, eventually there's a new generation and you are leaving things to them

Uphold Keynsianism-Baudrillardianism

this is beyond economics becuase there must be some reason you align your interest with your children even though you will die

What if i dont have children

Well then you are still locked in a gift relationship because your parents gave you life and their ancestors to them and so on

Eh, maybe until we start collectivizing test tube babies

But go on

But then I guess society would have given life

What if your offspring happens to be a nuisance than entrusting them the gifts?

^

Or how does one cultivate this new generation?

Any specific intervention?

One interesting thing is his analysis of terrorism like 9/11, he points out that more than just killing us they want to humiliate us

who is they

so this is like a social relation, not just an extermination idea. so I think it's about cultivating a mentality in people where they want to engage with the larger society and not just murder people or just accumulate

terrorists, like al qaeda and stuff

they didn't just want to kill people, they wanted to inflict a "symbolic wound"

in the gift economy, the challenge is always to find a better gift to give back

That's the presumption the Western Liberal media would like us to believe, but okay

oh ok you're referring to inside job theories?

I'd say the terrorists were moreso acting out of raw opportunism

oh ok

I don't see Islam being the primary driving factor

I agree

I see it as a smaller one

Baudrilalrd points out that if islam here hegemonic there would be terrorism against islam

global power is like a gift, you can get a gift you don't want, because "the given" is the world it has made

Hegemonic in regards to what?

Hegemonic globally?

in marxist terms the spread of the commodity system

as the outcome of Western imperialism

Well, certain Islamic countries do practice Imperialism

Islam would have suffer terribly a huge amount of revolts.

Saudi Arabia being a prime example

Not just terrorism. Their culture is practically quite contrary to the used lives of people under secular/reformed Christianity.