The left long marched into our institutions and effectively took over our country while being completely disingenuous with the people. They preached love and peace and laughed all the way to the bank with a Marxist/leftist root only seen by the top echelon

You don't think there was a radical vanguard?

Whenever someone asks me where I stand politically, I always just say I'm a nationalist to avoid having to explain identitarian, its definitely good for normie conversation

How many times since the 50s have we learned the lesson that masking our true intentions does not work except to actually degrade those intentions into what we wanted to overcome in the first place (the mainstream right)

I understand toning down the message to normies so you don't get doxed, but identitarian is specific, whereas nationalist can be a bit vague.

e.g. civic vs ethnic/racial

If it's any consolation the Left has also overplayed their hand and has no idea of how to operate when we go on the offense instead of staying on defense

The disagreement here I think is as to whether or not we should be explicit, or rather how explicit we should be

@Reinhard Wolff lmao I literally never said I don't think we'll win I even said earlier I think the ideology is strong I just don't being explicitly in your face about is going to get too far I think the networking and infrastructure will be far more important. I don't really appreciate you representing me as being against the org or our cause though. I'm not saying were doomed I'm just saying the infrastructure and the network will prove more effective long term and that our rhetoric with adjusted would grant us more of that.

I joined IE because it was explicitly white, well run, professional, and obviously growing.

I'm a supporter of this approach. The way the Overton Window works is that you always get less than you bargain for. That's why we need people to be radical. Not extremist, but radical.

The left won using front groups, but still had more radical groups both to funnel people into, and to pull on the Overton Window.

@Ald we are explicit on race but not abrasive on it. Many groups have walked this line. It's harder for us because the media controllers hate us, but in the end people will still want to hear how we describe ourselves from our own mouths, and it's important not to give the media any records to present us as speaking for ourselves badly

>But just explicitly being an effectively revolutionary right group with an extremely obscure metapolitcial lexicon I just frankly don't see as getting incredibly far

"I don't see as getting incredibly far" -- this doesn't refer to us? Which other right wing group with an "extreme obscure metapolitical lexicon" (identitarian?) were you referring to?

We're talking about IE.

I'm saying in our current position how everything stands

Not the org not the members not the future

Right, one should be as optics friendly as possible *within* explicit White advocacy toward an ethnostate, or else what are we really doing here @ThisIsChris

Which group were you referring to?

I'm just offering ideas as to how we can expand our realm of influence which is an overall positive

"not the org"

Another important issue to keep in mind is that if we promote civic nationalism "for more", by the time we're "ready" for identitarianism, there won't be any identitarians left to help you promote it. That's why the left need radical groups to be their operations out of.

Let's go easy on the animal posting

I'm enjoying this discussion

@Ald agreed, although we do need to be careful what we want, not to nitpick but we don't want to be explicit about wanting an ethnostate because in the end that may not be what we actually aim for in the real world

Just so we're all clear, it is perfectly okay to have civil discussions about our strategy

When I say not the org I'm saying not the org itself but the current status of our situation and our approach I think we'd benefit from a bit of a rhetoric shift and I think we're doing that so I'm fairly content. A lot of your speeches have had a populist lean and I'm pretty sure every time I've said how much of a good idea I think it is

@micbwilli can you please delete and post that later?

Sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt

I never said we had no chance and I really like our slightly shifting direction

I think a lot of normie cons are getting more receptive to something more radical especially after Kavanaugh, they will respect us if we are strong and maintain our positions instead of cucking or keeping our agenda secret

I just want that made clear

@ThisIsChris What more could we want? Who else will struggle for the ideal for us?

Glad to hear it @Kingfish

Yeah my bad boss

I hope IE never stops being white only or explicitly for white well being.

But my ideas still stand, and I think @Jacob has a great point with influencing groups like CR and other heritage groups indirectly rather than flatout converting them

An effective radical vanguard should act as a center of gravity for everyone very broadly on our side, not as an ideological prostitute pulled this way and that by who we "need" to appease

@Ald what we want is the right and ability to organize white people for their collective interest. This may happen in a state where whites are a super majority, majority, plurality, or less. We hope it's more, but realistically it could be less and we don't want to be painted with the bad parts of "ethnostate" if it's not actually important to our real goals

I've considered this issue at length, and that's part of the reason we've shifted as we have. The problem, as I see it, is that the culture of our "movement" and organization is too radically racial for the average Tucker fan.

If we dilute our message enough, people will leave.

@ThisIsChris An ideal is a frame of reference that gives "important" or "unimportant" their meanings

I agree I just want to see us be able to tap that message somehow without losing o it essence

I do think there's somewhat of a happy medium, which is why the server rules as they are.

@Ald on that I really disagree, because the ideal is something that is not realistic it is a gift to those that want to slander us. Richard Spencer can't talk to a reporter without them asking him how he's going to remove nonwhites from America for his ethnostate. Ethnic removal is not really something we are thinking about or have any concrete plans to think about.

As long as IE is white only and primarily concerned with creating a better world / America for white people, I can roll with adjustments.

In the truly long game, only an ethnostate addresses the conditions necessary for our guaranteed existence. I see it as a victory in itself that ethnostate has entered the lexicon of the politically minded

@Nemets Russia has its ethnic divisions due to its huge size, but the environment and circumstances are different here.

@Nemets This should be good Russian reading practice for me

@Nemets Not saying there is nothing to learn though.

@Ald I disagree, many ethnic groups in the world without a state. some minority groups even rule over their host country's majority

@ThisIsChris One can have immediate goals like securing the border and freedom of association, increasing our birthrate and decreasing that of the colored, etc, and these are all good, but if we're serious about our indefinite existence we can never lose sight of the fact that races only exist at all because of isolation, and anything less than an ethnostate means some measure of mixture every generation until we're gone as a distinct people

@Nemets That require aspects of state apparatus that at least tolerates such action.

I'm thinking to myself, what is the plan for Europeans 10,000 years down the road?

My 2 cents before I sleep. I think it's not good to cover a racial identitarian moment as anything else as it becomes apparent to others what it is about.

Someone I was listing to the other day was talking about predictive police algorithms. When they are told to avoid targeting blacks they just target a proxies like weave shops and places of high methol sales (not a joke).

The American Values or other so stated things are just a proxy for White culture and identity. You'll have all the negatives tossed at you for being an implict white group and none of the positives of being honest about what your group is.

@Ald "if we're serious about our indefinite existence we can never lose sight of the fact that races only exist at all because of isolation, and anything less than an ethnostate means some measure of mixture every generation until we're gone as a distinct people" not true, so long as white-white couples produce more children that goes beyond replacing those lost

We aren’t even doing that now though, @ThisIsChris.

The ruling elite game, which is the best we can hope for outside an ethnostate, does not work, empirically. Look at Indians. Look at Persians. Look at South Americans. @ThisIsChris

Regarding ethnostate. You can't get one by any means until enough people are racially conscious. Making whites racially conscious is the first task and I think IE is great at that.

Conservative white couples have a high birth rate. They can overtake if their is no immigration.

The number one goal is (legally and non-violently) replacing our current ruling class/establishment.

legally, non-violently, in Minecraft

Passing a few immigration bills while the media, academia, the donor class, etc. all pull the strings won't amount to much in the end.

@dudelsäcke true, but my two points are 1. the point is sticking out your end goal as your first goal for criticism is very unnecessary, and 2. We should try to understand how we can be a prosperous people in a non-ideal world without trying to go "all out"

What happens after we install a new political class could take many forms. I'm of the opinion that an all-White ethnostate in America is unlikely -- at least at this point -- but who knows where we'll be in 50, 100, 250 years.

Defeating the Left is absolutely goal number one, though.

Which is why we should be friendly with other Trump supporters.

Someone just removed their thumbs up. I saw that.

<:patrickvikernes:423301225749151744>

@Jacob Brandenburg vs Ohio. It's not illegal to discuss replacement of our current political system with another type. We don't even have to Minecraft that one.

Why not go "all out", if we can? No one will aim for it for us. We can talk about where we are presently, and what to do about it, but without a true ideal, what can we say we are actually moving towards? Can we struggle for something less than what we really want in our hearts? @ThisIsChris

forgive me master, for I must go all out, just this once

Ya, we should definitely try to make friends with Trump people. Proud Boys collaborated with Antifa to try to dox me, but, some, I assume, are good people.

@micbwilli Major newspapers are openly demanding revision of the Constitution (no more 1st or 2nd A, no more Electoral College, no more Supreme Court)

A lot of these guys just need some guidance, even if we shouldn't assume they're all our friends automatically

@ThisIsChris, birthdate and demographics are all intertwined though. Whites have low birth rates because they are shouldering the burden of POCs and because of guilt and because of nihilism. These forces will only strengthen with time in a multiethnic country.

@Wood-Ape - OK/MN But those are my favorite ammendments... 😟

For anyone curious, Antifa took a picture of me, and Proud Boys spread it around and bragged that they confronted that white nationalist (me)

@micbwilli Me too.

What you're putting forward as an endgame just fails to inspire and I think most likeminded to us would agree @ThisIsChris

So, exercise caution, but try to make friends with them

I have even seen liberals and demSocs shilling to get rid of the senate ("why does South Dakota have as many Senators as California"- cat ladies)

The ethnostate is the ideal, no doubt, its plausibility right now is out there but nothing great is easily or quickly gained. And it is great. A dream. A hope. Unlike trying to make it work amongst a teeming brown empire

Just as an aside. FTN had a really good white pill in today's show. A recent large poll of voters with 65% white respondents had 35% saying they were going to vote in the specific interests of white people. 😀

I like how you call blacks Bantus

Listening to the first post hiatus "Fatherland" Episode, and Jim is praising IE highly. IE needs to keep doing what we're doing.

TRS podcasts praise us a lot.

Fatherland split from TRS but yup

Oh, is he? Interesting.

Could you link it with a timestamp?

2hr 20 minute mark ish

@Ald It'd be a nice bonus but it may not be an ideal. You can construct on paper an ideal version of an ideal ethnostate, but there's a lot of practical things now to be focused on.

https://media.zencast.fm/the-fatherland/episodes/11

Do the Proud Boys really beat each other up while yelling out cereal brands?

I think it was the Friday TDS that talked about the pre-IE operations of calling out anti-white professors on campuses.

And the Bantus displaced the Khoisan. So much for pan-Africanism.

@Reinhard Wolff 2:23:00

I liked that strategy but IIRC it was shut down due to legal concerns (targeting).

Thanks, @Wood-Ape - OK/MN.

@dudelsäcke " birthdate and demographics are all intertwined though. Whites have low birth rates because they are shouldering the burden of POCs and because of guilt and because of nihilism. These forces will only strengthen with time in a multiethnic country." Agreed but all we can do is find out how to flourish and fight nihilism given our current circumstances, which are less than ideal but not impossible to work within