I'm just offering ideas as to how we can expand our realm of influence which is an overall positive

"not the org"

Another important issue to keep in mind is that if we promote civic nationalism "for more", by the time we're "ready" for identitarianism, there won't be any identitarians left to help you promote it. That's why the left need radical groups to be their operations out of.

Let's go easy on the animal posting

I'm enjoying this discussion

@Ald agreed, although we do need to be careful what we want, not to nitpick but we don't want to be explicit about wanting an ethnostate because in the end that may not be what we actually aim for in the real world

Just so we're all clear, it is perfectly okay to have civil discussions about our strategy

When I say not the org I'm saying not the org itself but the current status of our situation and our approach I think we'd benefit from a bit of a rhetoric shift and I think we're doing that so I'm fairly content. A lot of your speeches have had a populist lean and I'm pretty sure every time I've said how much of a good idea I think it is

@micbwilli can you please delete and post that later?

Sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt

I never said we had no chance and I really like our slightly shifting direction

I think a lot of normie cons are getting more receptive to something more radical especially after Kavanaugh, they will respect us if we are strong and maintain our positions instead of cucking or keeping our agenda secret

I just want that made clear

@ThisIsChris What more could we want? Who else will struggle for the ideal for us?

Glad to hear it @Kingfish

Yeah my bad boss

I hope IE never stops being white only or explicitly for white well being.

But my ideas still stand, and I think @Jacob has a great point with influencing groups like CR and other heritage groups indirectly rather than flatout converting them

An effective radical vanguard should act as a center of gravity for everyone very broadly on our side, not as an ideological prostitute pulled this way and that by who we "need" to appease

@Ald what we want is the right and ability to organize white people for their collective interest. This may happen in a state where whites are a super majority, majority, plurality, or less. We hope it's more, but realistically it could be less and we don't want to be painted with the bad parts of "ethnostate" if it's not actually important to our real goals

I've considered this issue at length, and that's part of the reason we've shifted as we have. The problem, as I see it, is that the culture of our "movement" and organization is too radically racial for the average Tucker fan.

If we dilute our message enough, people will leave.

@ThisIsChris An ideal is a frame of reference that gives "important" or "unimportant" their meanings

I agree I just want to see us be able to tap that message somehow without losing o it essence

I do think there's somewhat of a happy medium, which is why the server rules as they are.

@Ald on that I really disagree, because the ideal is something that is not realistic it is a gift to those that want to slander us. Richard Spencer can't talk to a reporter without them asking him how he's going to remove nonwhites from America for his ethnostate. Ethnic removal is not really something we are thinking about or have any concrete plans to think about.

As long as IE is white only and primarily concerned with creating a better world / America for white people, I can roll with adjustments.

In the truly long game, only an ethnostate addresses the conditions necessary for our guaranteed existence. I see it as a victory in itself that ethnostate has entered the lexicon of the politically minded

@Nemets Russia has its ethnic divisions due to its huge size, but the environment and circumstances are different here.

@Nemets This should be good Russian reading practice for me

@Nemets Not saying there is nothing to learn though.

@Ald I disagree, many ethnic groups in the world without a state. some minority groups even rule over their host country's majority

@ThisIsChris One can have immediate goals like securing the border and freedom of association, increasing our birthrate and decreasing that of the colored, etc, and these are all good, but if we're serious about our indefinite existence we can never lose sight of the fact that races only exist at all because of isolation, and anything less than an ethnostate means some measure of mixture every generation until we're gone as a distinct people

@Nemets That require aspects of state apparatus that at least tolerates such action.

I'm thinking to myself, what is the plan for Europeans 10,000 years down the road?

My 2 cents before I sleep. I think it's not good to cover a racial identitarian moment as anything else as it becomes apparent to others what it is about.

Someone I was listing to the other day was talking about predictive police algorithms. When they are told to avoid targeting blacks they just target a proxies like weave shops and places of high methol sales (not a joke).

The American Values or other so stated things are just a proxy for White culture and identity. You'll have all the negatives tossed at you for being an implict white group and none of the positives of being honest about what your group is.

@Ald "if we're serious about our indefinite existence we can never lose sight of the fact that races only exist at all because of isolation, and anything less than an ethnostate means some measure of mixture every generation until we're gone as a distinct people" not true, so long as white-white couples produce more children that goes beyond replacing those lost

We aren’t even doing that now though, @ThisIsChris.

The ruling elite game, which is the best we can hope for outside an ethnostate, does not work, empirically. Look at Indians. Look at Persians. Look at South Americans. @ThisIsChris

Regarding ethnostate. You can't get one by any means until enough people are racially conscious. Making whites racially conscious is the first task and I think IE is great at that.

Conservative white couples have a high birth rate. They can overtake if their is no immigration.