@Reinhard Wolff It takes a minute or two

@Jacob do you not?

People should bring that up more. Not so innocent.

@Nemets

@Nemets you said non human. Do you hold to the theory that Subsaharans are Homo Idaltu admixed?

Okay I wasn't meaning on spending a long time on Discord today, but I feel I need to respond to this "ethnostate" thing.

The idea behind it is good, but the term is bad. "Ethnostate" sounds too science fiction, and it sounds like we're demanding a 100.00% white homeland tomorrow. It makes an easy target to talk about how unrealistic we are.

There's more mild ways of expressing the same idea. I usually tell people that I believe every group should have a homeland where they're the clear majority. Just talk about homelands, majorities, supermajorities, etc. These sound really reasonable and not science fiction y.

@Nemets Mestizos aren't Bantu though. Aztecs!

https://www.rt.com/business/440807-zulu-king-south-africa-land/

Talk of Bantu reminded me of this. Next time someone calls SA genocide a white supremacy conspiracy let them know the Zulu think it's a real issue.

I think you underestimate the power and actually necessity of having an absolutist ideal. At the bottom of a hole it serves as a point of reference as to what "better" would be. Better would be more whites, less non whites, more promotion of tradition and less of degeneracy, more of health and less of sickness, etc. Don't get blinders on about immediate smaller issues or else the effort is all for nothing in the end @ThisIsChris

Yes but most whites don't even see themselves as white, or worse are anti white. Have to fix that first

Truth

Whites are getting less colorblind and starting to "notice".

@Ald those are all more manageable goals though and can be discussed perfectly without discussing ethnostates

Also, I think the "ethnostate" term pushes us into a false dichotomy. Opponents will often respond that it's unrealistic and therefore we shouldn't try. Of course, to us, we understand that this argument is wrong, but, it intuitively sounds reasonable without thinking about it too deeply.

Saying that what we want is "an ethnostate" makes it sound like it's 100.00% or bust, which, at best, sounds like an unrealistic goal, and, at worst, sounds like we want to throw babies into train cars.

Now, I understand that this is a stupid argument, but, we should still avoid it.

@Nemets what is the deal with Somalis? to me they seem less intelligent and physiologically stranger than west Africans.

@ThisIsChris But they all are only desirable within a framework wherein the implicit ideal is the ethnostate

@Nemets Are Zulu Bantu?

@Ald or just white flourishing generally

What do you put forward as peak white flourishing instead?

Just making it work somehow?

Why?

When we know what the best thing for our people really is

Peak white flourishing is white flourishing that exists, is real, and is stable

States, especially ethnostates, don't exist and are not stable in concept or practice

@Nemets Who are the most anti-white group in South Africa? What kind of blacks are coming for the farms?

Why does this place always get interesting this time of night when I need sleep?

Oh well night guys. Thank care.

@Jacob, I disagree. The left is always using utopian ideals, like communism. Many moderate leftists just don’t believe in such utopian ideas. But it it pushes the Overton window nonetheless. Maybe we aren’t pushing the discussion hard enough by using distancing verbiage.

Murdoch on his podcast had a great, simple approach: "Be pro white. Try to make the future for white people better, try to make your land more white and not less. Anyone who is pro white is a potential ally."

That's a great point with the Overton Window @dudelsäcke

@Jacob EFF seems top villains

What I really want to impress is that no one will stake that radical ideal for us. And the more we promote it the more acceptable everyone a little more lenient looks, pulling the overton window our way

@Jacob https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_Fighters

These bits are the biggest worry I know of.

Still, advocating for homelands for all people where they live around those they share a common culture and identity with is a more "reasonable" sounding way of expressing the same idea @dudelsäcke

Cause like, if ethnostate guys are a fact of politics, by comparison just being hard on immigration looks moderate

@ThisIsChris

@Ald That's honestly a really good point and probably the best argument I've heard in favor of the "ethnostate" strategy

Though, I think there should be a balance between pulling the Overton Window, and sounding realistic

We should sound radical but not to the point that it's science fiction y

@Jacob, I agree. But the dissident right needs a spectrum of commentators who are pushing varying degrees of our beliefs. In polite company, say “homelands” for all. But maybe IE’s place is more to the right...? I donno. From Tomi to Tucker to Lauren to... Where does IE fit?

@Ald "if ethnostate guys are a fact of politics, by comparison just being hard on immigration looks moderate" that's a big if though because "if ethnostate guys are a fact of politics" presumes they can ever be successful, which they can't in our time or place or any forseeable time and place

"Any foreseeable time and place"

@Ald IE also doesn't have to do everything. A decentralized right wing /white well being movement is anti-fragile and multiple approaches by separate groups can help even without teamwork. IE has the highest potential for growth as "good cop." We shouldn't either endorse or disavow other groups like Patriot Front. We do our thing they do theirs. An explicit ethnostate group can do their thing too.

What are we even laboring for then

If you can't foresee any time and place

where a white nation for whites is plausible

@dudelsäcke That's a good point. Maybe guys advocating for an "ethnostate" do have a place, but I think there's a strong need for something like IE

@Ald white flourishing generally. fewer specifics means opponents can't pin us down on rhetorical points

So you want plausibility but fewer specifics. I guess the ideal on that view is just "Shit be how it is"

I prefer to call it racial self-determination of sovereignty, but flourishing works too.

The existing ethnostate groups (League of the South, Northwest Front) don't have good records. If a new group rose that could only be a good thing, but it benefits IE and everyone for IE to not be too entangled in such a group.

@Ald given that things are how they are, we are working towards a better country for white people in the ways we can, and discussing ethnostates would set us back

Not really though? The fact the word ethnostate is even in the political vocabulary now is a victory

@Ald I disagree with that, it's in the voccabulary for hostile media to whip out and scare possible allies away from us

The media is blind. A lot of people hear their rhetoric and think the opposite. Even normies.

Well are we trying to accomplish something or be non threatening?

Advocating for white interests has a nice ring to it. I think that's what AmRen terms there work.

We're trying to accomplish things and we're definitely not trying to threaten anyone

What about the guys we really want to whom ethnostate sounds appealing? Who do they join? Idiot wn 1.0 type groups?

@Ald they need to do some introspection on what they really want. if they want to live in fantasy land then they shouldn't join IE

I joined IE because I see it as the most plausible vehicle for the existence and flourishing of our people, which in the end necessitates absolute homogeneity

We should have various side projects at various levels of Overton-pushing that seem unaffiliated with IE.

@Ald I would say they can join IE, but they have to portray us a certain way publicly

"I joined IE because I see it as the most plausible vehicle for the existence and flourishing of our people, which in the end necessitates absolute homogeneity" it's this "in the end necessitates absolute homogeneity" that I don't see @Ald why?

I just see it as different jobs. IE is building community and support networks, helping members grow, doing service and impactful demonstrations. Ans waking white people up.

A different group, well run by responsible leaders, COULD run an ethnostate promoting group. But IE and such a group BENEFIT MORE from not being intertwined.

@dudelsäcke interesting idea and one for the future, at the moment we really need to work on building up IE

True

Because an ethnostate group would benefit from IE's success. And IE can more easily succeed if not tied to an ethnostate

But they don’t have to be full on rallies or anything. A Twitter here, a podcast there. IE members do that stuff anyway

Too late though, right?

@dudelsäcke anything that can't be linked to IE through your identity or any other chain is your own business. I know I have anonymous twitter account so I don't have to worry about speaking as an IE member. Not that I sperg out but I wouldn't want to present something as being said by an IE member without it being approved by leadership anyway

Still

@ThisIsChris wellll I don't think that's entirely true

If someone was found saying something super depraved, they'd probably have action taken against them even if it wasn't tied to IE

Well, we don’t want to push the Overton window that far anyway. LOL

@Jacob true

@ThisIsChris Wellbeing in any sense that makes, well, sense, implies a range of minimal and maximal wellbeing. What is your idea of maximal wellbeing if not a place by and for us and us alone for our interests alone

That's my last word on it

@Nemets What do you think we should replace capitalism with?

@Ald Say you want to build a rocketship (ethnostate).
How can you do that without lots of educated engineers (awakened whites?)
IE isnthe first year engineering class.

@Nemets So socialism?

I completely agree with that @Wood-Ape - OK/MN

huh

I mean it's not a bad thing if it's socialism

Sounds familiar

I'm all for socialism

@Nemets, how did you learn so much about Africa?

Wow

I really need to read more

@Ald In <#371705962224025610> we have the document "values before policy". My idea of the maximal wellbeing is one of changing our values and our culture. Reasoning is downstream from values, politics is downstream from culture. We've had ethnostates in the past and it didn't save us from where we are now because we lost the culture. We can't choose for ourselves because our values changed. My ideal is that our values and culture are in the right place. If that's the case we will outlast many iterations of ethnostates (as Europeans did for millenia). The political policies we advocate today are more importantly a device for us to communicate to the world the result of our values and the culture we want to instill. If someone asks why we want reduced immigration, it's because that policy reflects our values. If someone asks why we want to fight heroin and opioid use, it's because that policy reflects our beliefs. Explicit policy positions are an artistic expression of the values and culture we believe in.

@Nemets thanks

@ThisIsChris I actually agree with all of that but none of it necessitates walking back on what the end result of our values being realized would be

Which isn't to say shove it in people's faces, but don't contradict it

@Jacob hey do you know about when I do my second interview with Nico?

I will message him about that

Thanks, I've been busy this weekend anyways but I was just curious

I wonder if he'd let me do the secondary interview since I'm his assistant coordinator for Eastern Washington

Good Morning IE. Time to colonize this Monday and the rest of the workweek.

About to idelibly boof on the hippocampus of this midterm with the epinephrine and dopamine from my SIPP

@Sean can you direct message me ASAP

Oh dear.