and it was volatile by its very nature of being a representative, meritocratic organ of gov't

you could think it was a matter of time before they overthrew an ineffective or unpopular king

but how would you have it any other way?

which episode is this?

the first 15 or so

I think I'll start on it tomorrow

sounds interesting

and a lot more relevant than Roman history

I think roman history is relevant too

in a general sense

Not in the sense that you can relate to modern politics though

you begin with a state that had the political strength to survive the loss of 200,000 of its strongest, bravest men

and still come out on top

produce leaders like cincinnatus, construct a navy from scratch, produce an innovative system of gov't that worked for 400 years

not as relevant compared to Revolutions

only to degenerate into nigger tier coups, extralegal exceptions, street fighting, and civil wars

like the podcast lol

idk

I think it's very relevant given that Rome was a republic for half of its history

and I think that all republics have to deal with authority, distribution of power, constitutionality, and the rise/decline of the institutions over time

Well for sure, the lessons that Rome taught were incredibly important

Yeah but the details are nowhere near as important

yeah the details are only there to inspire general theory

But you can say the English Civil War was directly influential to America's founding

but I don't think it makes it any less important if you're really trying to understand politics

oh absolutely

what do you think inspired Locke to write his two treatises of gov't?

people really underestimate how influential locke was to the American colonists, also how disproportionately influential he was

That's one thing they get right in school

there was all sorts of thinkers at the time, with all sorts of works of varying popularity circulating the colonies, but for such an age of enlightenment, people weren't really as well read as the period is often portrayed

I remember looking at some primary documents about harvard students in the 1700s

a dorm burned down and the school was filing claims to restore property to the students

so you could see what every student claimed as his property, including the books that they had

lots of bible

lots of random textbooks

some john locke

everything else in very small quantities

honestly, it's kind of like today

in a sense

though replace the bible with some random social media bullshit or maybe the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy lol

people like james madison, benjamin franklin, alexander hamilton, and james madison were one out of a thousand

You have any book recommendations on European history?

Or should I just get a textbook for something like that?

I have a good recommendation of a "textbook"

Patrick O'Brien's World History Atlas

Alright fellas, what should we set this week's topic for?

Whatever you want

Should we follow a podcast or book?

Alright, because we are Amfirst, we'll do the American Revolutionary War as our very first topic.

The war was between American Rebels, and the British Empire lasting from Apr 19, 1775 – Sep 3, 1783, get to chatting fellas!

Do you think it was more miraculous that America won its independence, or was it inevitable?

Horatio Gates - big gay, or giga faggot?

@Deleted User Don't know enough about the fellow.

Seems like a queer from what little I'm reading of him.

If you looked at the political climate of the time period with the age of enlightenment it wasn't too amazing

But the if it weren't for the Seven Years War it would not have happened

But I mean militarily, do you think it was any amount of difficult or unlikely?

I hold the personal belief that we were very, very fortunate.

Militarily I'd say it was pretty miraculous

yeah which battle was the turning point? Trenton?

I'm not too well versed in specific battle of the revolution. I know quite a few from the civil war,

but I need to brush up on my revolutionary history.

Thankfully we have the History-Server™

I'll read up

But im clocking out fellas

The official slogan of the History-Server™

I'm not sure of the revolution was inevitable--I think that if the British were more open about sharing representation with the United States and allowing more free trade, then the colonies would have eventually fallen in line

The UK gov't was a lot more liberal than, let's say the Spanish gov't

Though if the UK didn't budge in the long-term, the American Revolution would have happened again

If not during the 1770s, then during the Napoleonic Wars

Also, has anyone heard of a hypothesis that the founders also took influence from Pre-Norman England?

and it could have been far more brutal

Washington almost died about 3 times in the Revolutionary War

HH VIN

@Solipsistic Vinarchy

HH

DIVINE INTERVENTION

GOD WILLS IT

AMERICA WILL BE

FREEEEE

https://youtu.be/GT0eD92u1Xs

https://youtu.be/xfxUMrhmX4w

https://youtu.be/8ICcH-mLt3c

Fellas

Is larping as a continental army soldier good or bad optics

larping in general is bad optics

Larping is fine for military reenactments

That's about it

https://youtu.be/7OjMuuk0W5Q

when he looks at the bust of pompey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiqO2h9hFJA HEY YOU CHEEKY YANKERS HAVEN'T PAID YOUR BLOODY BUTTERKNIFE TAX

Imagine a government that literally makes it illegal to carry plastic eating utensils in public because they view it as dangerous.

Holy shit I'm so glad we rebelled...

I imagine if we didn't rebel and stuck with the crown there is a fair chance we would be like modern Canada

Maybe worse

Not that our situation is any better

we should own canada by now

The Yukon is rightful American clay

this is true

🇮🇪 TIOCFAIDH ÁR LÁ POTATO NICKERS 🇮🇪

https://youtu.be/g3MJLcH0nGs

daily reminder that the only reason america gained independence was because of the french they so love to berate

Never again lads. We may rib each other about our nations, but at the end of the day we're brothers and everyone else wants us dead. Never again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9g7FvmWDgs

fellas my american revolution (((professor))) has made it very clear he is openly liberal. he claims time and time again the revolutionary war was not truly about human rights and breaking from a tyrannical government, rather it was an elite few conspiring against the british so they could maintain their smuggling of goods into the colonies. does he have a point?

olive branch petition shows we wanted to be a part of british and a lot of pamphlets that were written were by the elite under the pen name of commoners...

We were an incredibly scarce minority. But your teacher is a faggot, and whatever the reasons we broke away, we did. Fuck the crown, fuck the king, and fuck the loyalists. And y’know what? In spite of being an ideological minority, we still tarred and feathered loyalists from fucking Albany down to the Carolinas.

Yeah, we traded slaves, yeah, we wanted cheaper prices. All of this was within the crown’s abilities to address. And it still fell short. We weren’t about to pay for the economic fuckup of a bunch of barely literate cunts three thousand miles away.

It wasn’t about human fucking rights,

it was about telling a pompous faggot with no true authority over us to go take his undeserved globus cruciger, and shove it clean up his dementia-ridden prematurely senile, barely royal, ASS.

Tell your teacher to grow a sense of pride and a pair of nuts.

Now see, that seems logical, but how in the hell could we discern that for certain? I wish there was some type of hard number we could review and go off of instead of having to resort to multiple different contrasting figures.

http://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/from-the-archive-the-dallas-st-patricks-day-parade-50-years-ago/287-529484285?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5aae018e04d30156f431c3e2&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

It hurts...

I think we need to post about Mike Enoch since he will go down in history as the savior of the white race

Michael “Shark Eyes” Peinovich, God King of The Ethnostate, and Eternal Autarch of Awkwardly Holding Ranch Dressing

American revolution was completely unjustified t b q h

Britain almost bankrupted itself during the 7 years war getting the territory the colonists asked for

and when the tax rate in the colony goes up (still far lower than that in England) to pay off this debt they sperg out and declare independence

granted it all turned out great for the Americans in the end

(they hold world hegemony, foremost power etc)

but the entire revolution was unwarranted

imo

no

American revolution was to protect the liberties against the Westminster absoutism

And the American identity

Americans self-identified as Americans rather than British decades before the revolution

that's a bit of a generalisation, many colonists saw themselves as english transplanted to the Americas

sure some of them adopted a national identity when and after the revolution

happened

but a lot of them (for example the loyalists who moved to canada) considered themselves british first

after the revolution, loyalists migrated (actually got kicked out) to Canada

sure

but that was after the revolution took place

this is the conflict of identity

talking about the initial reasons for it

no way than actions of warfare can solve it

it will happen sooner or later

Americans will never be willing to vote for some representatives in Westminster

none of those living in the colonies wanted direct rule, but they were willing to wait for devolved powers to be granted to them

the Canadians, Australians and kiwis got dominion status sometime in the 30s

they didn't use violence to try and take those powers

fair enough, the Americans did

i just don't think it was worth spilling the blood of their fellows over

at first it is quite mild

but all the time things suddenly got heated

like explosion

no one planned a revolution from the beginning

but in the end, it had to be like this

i'd agree with that

the countries under britain's control only remained there for so long as britain had the power to keep them

as soon as british power waned every colony was pushing for independence or more autonomy

it's the fault of the british government for losing the power and influence required to maintain the empire

and another thing

founding fathers may first identify as proud subjects of British crown

but then they realize that the British tradition is corrupted

so they decide to segregate from that

at least britain and america have remained allies

been listening to the history of rome, fascinating stuff

very frustrating to look our statesmen and politicians today, when compared to even the most mundane leaders from history, no will to truly lead

i think in america this problem stems from our decaying homogeneity

how can you even earnestly lead a country like america and appeal to "the people" when half of them will eventually never agree with the interests of the other

in recent months i have grown further and further anti democracy

i think the most reasonable return into a real republic is to set maybe wealth and military service requirements for voting and serving an office

this wont completely eliminate minority and women voting but will reduce it

a repeal of race/gender suffrage directly would never pass for along time

The feasible way to do that is to limit the franchise to taxpayers

If you don't pay taxes you don't vote

even that is too broad i think

are all republics democratic?

maybe certain tax brackets

no

democracy =/= republic

republics can have democratic tendencies

but are not truly democratic

example?

i think the ideal republic would feature a senate:
consisted of members of the highest class
voted for by the highest class and upper middle class

A sort of tribune of the plebs made up by upper middle class, voted by upper middle class and representatives from the lower classes

Republic originally meant "a public matter" didn't it? There needs to be some type of democracy so that common people have some power in government

i think that version of the "tribune of the plebs" would have less power than they did in rome

this would limit democratic influence over most things yet still allow all citizens have some stake in the govt

but thats just off the top of my head

I've been wanting to look into Roman government to learn from their mistakes for a while but haven't gotten into it. I think American government is a fine system we have been decaying as a society

it was fine when we had limited franchisement

Yeah wasn't it land owning men back at the founding?

yes

i think in the coming years we will have a crossing the rubicon moment

im not really siege pilled

but i think we will have a sincere leader with Faustian spirit sieze control thorugh a constitutional crisis, not trump though.

i think we will lose 2024 then in 2028 we will win and i think thats when it will happen

Eh I don't see something like that happening imo. It depends on how divided the country is by that point and just how big of a crisis there will be.

I couldn't see something like that happening given the current lack of interest most have in politics

i dont know, i get kind of blackpilled sometimes about stuff, like how nobody in our government cares at all about us

not one

same. Fuentes and his America First stuff has been a whitepill for me though. Telling people to go to county GOP meetings, living good lives and starting families is the best way to turn things around.

If the culture can shift the politics will get better

Best of all it's a realistic goal

There's no larpy "rise up!" message

oh and btw all this crossing the rubicon stuff is not good optics, we should n't advocate for it at all, just a prediction about the future

I gotcha it's not an unreasonable prediction

yeah its not unreasonable to say that our current situation is not tenable, but le read siege is terrible, nobody should want a real civil war

it would not go as you think

we would just get invaded

the end

if one did start then maybe events would transpire as i described as a way to end it as quick as possible

Even if the balance of power were even it would be horrible

It may even be worst. If an actual war with modern weapons was waged in America the infrastructure would be destroyed

there would be no balance of power if a real open civil war started russia or china would just invade pretty quickly

oof well we just shitted up history chat

back to history

Would you have supported Caesar in the civil war with Pompey?

probably

The main thing is stop our New Rome sinking to the step that we have to choose between Caesar and Pompey

SPQR is already dead in the era of trilogy

@Deleted User depends on what you mean democracy

do you mean very limited suffrage, i.e., only a small portion of the people get to make the decisions?

I asked the question because I wanted to know if there is a republican form of government without any type suffrage

Or if all republics have some degree of democracy

The closest you can get to that is what we originally had.

White male landowners who had actual stock in the country they were voting to rule.

Or

do what the Holy Roman empire did,

except on a much larger scale,

have inheritated positions of power which are capable of voting.

I'm asking more of a question about definition

is it possible for a republic to not have suffrage

It is not.

or would it just be an oligarchy or aristocracy

okay

@Hektor#9849 well how do you have a legitimate transition of power

without any form of suffrage or hereditary right

trial by combat

There's a lot of nascent republics that don't have any democracy

but that seems like a transition period

i.e., the English Protectorate, the French Directory

@Hektor and even if the leader isn't elected in a republic, the legislature almost always is

@Hektor#9849 Why can't I ping you?

Hitler was gay

ur mom gay

no ur mom and dad gay together

das right

@Deleted User Would they even be a republic if there isn't suffrage though? How can government be a public matter if there is no voting?

There are degrees of publicness and differences in how legitimacy is drawn

But you're right in that it's very hard to have a republic without a mechanism for public feedback

The examples I mentioned weren't monarchies

and relied on an elected legislature while not having an elected executive