shinjitsu
Discord ID: 250054875583479810
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Whyd everyone just leave vc?
Gay
Not me what's it called
already hijacked talking points
yup\
SUBVERSIVE
yup
lol
he wasn't talking about recently he was talking about a long time ago
LOL israel was for the 2 state propositions
lol the jews just lovvved the UN partition plan
hahaha
hahahaha
this kikeish fucking circular reasoning
holy fuck i hate jews
interesting country list lol
fuck kikes
nukes created by einstein lmlfao
what is this autism
imagine being so literally autistic you say einstein is responsible for nukes
i cant anymore
nick is absolutely destroying this kid
he has said nothing other than 'that's debunked'
Yeah they are
Kinda mean lol
Nope brainlet tier
Imagine believing in a God and thinking he created shit tier people knowingly
Doesn't get more autistic than that
Like broseph said all predestination is a retarded attempt at reconciling free will with an omniscient God
Pick one.
Do you even know what Calvinism is lmao
So why would he create shit tier people then
Lmao solid argument
If you're autistic
Happens when someone just used "uh I'm not God" as an actual argument
Or I don't have a positive assertion to a God I should say
>can't defend Calvinism going beyond 1 layer deep
You realize any ideology that you differ with could use the exact same argument you have. I could argue for gods existence far better than you because I have read these religious texts
So no argument for Calvinism?
Okay
Yeah of course
You're making a conclusion that requires a jump from there that you're not justifying though
Let's say yes completely given agency for the sake of the argument
Wait hold up I wanna hear his reasoning
In Calvinism *yes*
This is my problem with what you're saying
In Calvinism it 100% is the fault of God that people do these things. Both collectivizing and being individually immoral
It's why I don't like Calvinism
No they shouldn't be because predestination is wrong, Calvinism is based on predestination and that is that
By extension it's wrong
No you can't have both
Sure but you can't make any claim that's not the same as a contradicting
You're talking about 2 things were consider that are mutually exclusive
Larp you need to look up what predestination is.
Okay sure a plan but that's not what you said originally Thomas
Predestination is the idea that some people all people are created and it is predestined whether or not they will ascend. This is 100% in contradiction with free will
Intent isn't what predestination says
You can't just use the word in a different sense
Predestination says the destination of the soul is predetermined.
As in you either ascend to heaven or don't.
Yeah I agree with you when we talk about intent 100%
We were originally talking about Calvinism though that's where the discussion sprang up
Yeah Simon that's the thing though you are saying free will doesn't exist if it's predetermined whether or not they will go to heaven. Either that or they can do ANYTHING they want in life and still ascend
IQ is both but this is irrelevant
Predetermined is fine
It's only to a degree though
I highly suggest you read the gay science. He goes into everything we're talking about much better than j can
Okay you could argue that but no Christians will agree with you
I tend to believe that but for the sake of the argument we assumed agency is real
I'm not saying we can or have to know
I'm saying if you believe in Calvinism you believe that either free will doesn't exist, or that people who are going to be going to heaven can do whatever immoral thin they want and still get in
No they can't
Calvinism believes that a soul is destined for heaven or hell determined at or prior to birth
meaning you either believe
1: Free will does not exist and this person will not be immoral.
2: It does not matter if this person is immoral in life, free will can exist, but they will do whatever they want and still get in.
What you will try to do now is say that it's number 1 but the character traits of the individual are the ones that determine how they act but you can't do this
It means that you can though
and if you can there is no way to say that this person is predestined for heaven or hell
unless the person's actions don't matter
These are non-arguments
You can't say that and still have free will
because it is determined *prior to their actions* whether or not they go to heaven
This is just logically false
you can not give free will while remaining omniscient
Because if it is known what you will do, then it is predetermined what you will do, and you have no agency
no you are just flat out wrong here there isn't even an argument to make.
No that's wrong. This is accepted by wrong by every philosopher even religious ones
No it doesn't matter. If he **knows** what actions you will tkae prior to you making them. Then there is **no** way to say you could have chosen otherwise.
This is not up for debate, this is widely accepted as problem by people you probably agree with
In this scenario free will is an illusion
It's why Calvinism (specifically predestination) is wrong and where these disagreements come from
No wait
*possible actions* is not the same as saying knowing which actions the person will take
Prior to you making them?
Just yes or no prior to you making them, does God know what decision you will make? In your opinion
No
It's not
because the soul is predestined to heaven or hell
Yes or no, does God know what action you will make before you make it?
Yes
This is literally the central tenant of Calvinism
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