Whyd everyone just leave vc?

Gay

Not me what's it called

already hijacked talking points

yup\

SUBVERSIVE

yup

lol

he wasn't talking about recently he was talking about a long time ago

LOL israel was for the 2 state propositions

lol the jews just lovvved the UN partition plan

hahaha

hahahaha

this kikeish fucking circular reasoning

holy fuck i hate jews

interesting country list lol

fuck kikes

nukes created by einstein lmlfao

what is this autism

imagine being so literally autistic you say einstein is responsible for nukes

i cant anymore

nick is absolutely destroying this kid

he has said nothing other than 'that's debunked'

Yeah they are

Kinda mean lol

Nope brainlet tier

Imagine believing in a God and thinking he created shit tier people knowingly

Doesn't get more autistic than that

Like broseph said all predestination is a retarded attempt at reconciling free will with an omniscient God

Pick one.

Do you even know what Calvinism is lmao

So why would he create shit tier people then

Lmao solid argument

If you're autistic

Happens when someone just used "uh I'm not God" as an actual argument

Or I don't have a positive assertion to a God I should say

>can't defend Calvinism going beyond 1 layer deep

You realize any ideology that you differ with could use the exact same argument you have. I could argue for gods existence far better than you because I have read these religious texts

So no argument for Calvinism?

Okay

Yeah of course

You're making a conclusion that requires a jump from there that you're not justifying though

Let's say yes completely given agency for the sake of the argument

Wait hold up I wanna hear his reasoning

In Calvinism *yes*

This is my problem with what you're saying

In Calvinism it 100% is the fault of God that people do these things. Both collectivizing and being individually immoral

It's why I don't like Calvinism

No they shouldn't be because predestination is wrong, Calvinism is based on predestination and that is that

By extension it's wrong

No you can't have both

Sure but you can't make any claim that's not the same as a contradicting

You're talking about 2 things were consider that are mutually exclusive

Larp you need to look up what predestination is.

Okay sure a plan but that's not what you said originally Thomas

Predestination is the idea that some people all people are created and it is predestined whether or not they will ascend. This is 100% in contradiction with free will

Intent isn't what predestination says

You can't just use the word in a different sense

Predestination says the destination of the soul is predetermined.

As in you either ascend to heaven or don't.

Yeah I agree with you when we talk about intent 100%

We were originally talking about Calvinism though that's where the discussion sprang up

Yeah Simon that's the thing though you are saying free will doesn't exist if it's predetermined whether or not they will go to heaven. Either that or they can do ANYTHING they want in life and still ascend

IQ is both but this is irrelevant

Predetermined is fine

It's only to a degree though

I highly suggest you read the gay science. He goes into everything we're talking about much better than j can

Okay you could argue that but no Christians will agree with you

I tend to believe that but for the sake of the argument we assumed agency is real

I'm not saying we can or have to know

I'm saying if you believe in Calvinism you believe that either free will doesn't exist, or that people who are going to be going to heaven can do whatever immoral thin they want and still get in

No they can't

Calvinism believes that a soul is destined for heaven or hell determined at or prior to birth

meaning you either believe
1: Free will does not exist and this person will not be immoral.
2: It does not matter if this person is immoral in life, free will can exist, but they will do whatever they want and still get in.

What you will try to do now is say that it's number 1 but the character traits of the individual are the ones that determine how they act but you can't do this

It means that you can though

and if you can there is no way to say that this person is predestined for heaven or hell

unless the person's actions don't matter

These are non-arguments

You can't say that and still have free will

because it is determined *prior to their actions* whether or not they go to heaven

This is just logically false

you can not give free will while remaining omniscient

Because if it is known what you will do, then it is predetermined what you will do, and you have no agency

no you are just flat out wrong here there isn't even an argument to make.

No that's wrong. This is accepted by wrong by every philosopher even religious ones

No it doesn't matter. If he **knows** what actions you will tkae prior to you making them. Then there is **no** way to say you could have chosen otherwise.

This is not up for debate, this is widely accepted as problem by people you probably agree with

In this scenario free will is an illusion

It's why Calvinism (specifically predestination) is wrong and where these disagreements come from

No wait

*possible actions* is not the same as saying knowing which actions the person will take

Prior to you making them?

Just yes or no prior to you making them, does God know what decision you will make? In your opinion

No

It's not

because the soul is predestined to heaven or hell

Yes or no, does God know what action you will make before you make it?

Yes

This is literally the central tenant of Calvinism