And mass surveilance against crime would be incredibly fucking useful in catching murderers, thieves, and all kinds of criminals.

Listen, I have my reasons, previous events that have occurred.

mass surveillance would also be extremely useful in political oppression.

you're like every other Utopian tyrant in history. give you more power for to keep people safe. it's for the children, blah blah blah

pathetic. it's like you've never read a book in your life.

1984 isn't a fucking instruction manual.

and if the government becomes oppressive and corrupt to that point you're so worried about they'll just be overthrown by the american people

because we as a nation don't stand for that bullshit?

because **we have guns**

that the American people are so well armed is not a bug

it's a feature

*sigh*

We've failed to stand against a lot of bullshit, take a look at current mass surveillance that has been allowed to take place

and for a law abidding citizen when has massive survellience ever impedded heavily on your liberties as a human being

have you been, jailed?

Fined?

convicted of a crime you didn't commit?

because politicians never abuse their power

No, because under surveilance, as long as you're a good, law abiding citizen, you really have nothing to worry about

I believe surveillance should be handled by city to city basis.

a lot of Nazis said the same thing

by the police force within each city.

as long as you're a good, law abiding German citizen you have nothing to fear

Or soviet.

Or chinese

Or cambodian

Yeah but the nazis also vouched for the slaughtering of millions.

or Soviet, of course.

or vietnamese

or korean

a big fucking difference.

We should all just shit in public restrooms without privacy doors apparently, privacy still has value even if you have nothing to hide

so you want privacy

in a public plac,e lke on the streets?

or in a shop?

maybe if the jews had guns that might not have happened...

<:TimThink:482277772497125378>

what's that saying... I always found it pretty thoughtful... Sacrificing privacy because you have nothing to hide is like sacrificing freedom of speech because you have nothing to say.

Mimi you strike me as someone who is very young and naive. You really need to read more. Both history and dystopian fiction. You need to learn what can go wrong with your utopian authoritarianism. It's been thoroughly investigated over the past century, both from a practical point of view and hypothetical. That's why most Americans reject it outright; not because they haven't thought about it but because it's been so thoroughly debunked and proven to be completely awful.

It's like curing a disease by killing the patient.

```I feel we just need to stop producing handguns because of their high use in crime-related incidents.```
Maybe we should just stop defending and glorifying minoritys and prosecute them for the shit they do??

And send in the National Guard to clear out the Problematic Areas of the Gangs

that too.

except sending in soldiers to systematically arrest and take out people would be 'tyrannical'

and make us 'like the nazis'

bah...

you can't do shit in this fucking world without someone whining like a little brat that's you're a 'tyrant'

I'm not saying that halting or lowering the production of handguns is the only thing we should do.

the whole tyrant thing is such a perfect example of how we humans have devolved, i mean even wild animals bite off their own feet just so they can survive

the whole inferno movie thing with zobrist really got me thinking about how we as humans have become attached to struggling more in the future then suffering less in the persent

the protests in france are necesarry and its a blessing they are happning now not a year or so later

yeah...

what if there was an actual EU army for example

with protesters maybe even getting gunned down at mass

oh dear lord.

People wouldn't stand for it. Unless they've been brainwashed tools that were told to turn the other cheek.

actual human progression will always come at a cost and if we wont pay that price we stop going forward and turn straight around going back but now people are too lazy ior too scared or anything for that matter to not see how much good things can come from a faillure its just we need to do shit with it

what doesnt kill you make you stronger applies very heavily here

at a minute to midnight the glass is only halfway filled

I wanna die

rad

I am too sleepy to be awake, goodnight

bye im going to get extremely drunk with other teenagers

fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXGgI2E5JUw&feature=youtu.be

stossel

Gun Control is good, when done right.

Problem is: Politicians don't want to do it right, they want to disarm the Populus.

What I'd do: I'd require a concealed Carry Permit (or something a bit simpler) for getting a Handgun, a Rifle will be good without and only a "small Weapon thingy"..

REEE but the children!

REEEEEEEEEEEEE

TAKE ALL THE GUNS

REEEEEEEEEE

nah very few people want to take all the guns

they just don't understand what they are really asking for

cause most people who want gun control don't have one

and then they make it so other have to give up theres

when really the people that affect them are not interested in gun laws

I don't have a gun but I see the advantage of the normal population having guns and beeing able to shoot anyone that might hurt them

Its like people say, where more guns are around, people are more polite...

the thing about guns is that they are democratic. it used to be the case that a person, through some accident of nature, could be physically stronger than other people and could take their property. now with guns, everyone has approximately the same physical power

Just got the public notary for my CMP Garand, just need to send in the order now.

There’s nothing like the feeling of getting your freedom gats *from the Government*

My solution Stefan is to have everyone take zero level firearm safety courses so they understand that firearms are tools and not magic death ray machines.

Gun safety and introductory courses should be a staple portion of any high school curriculum.

Teach the kids even earlier than that. Level zero is "This is the muzzle, don't point it at people. This is the trigger, don't touch it until you are ready to shoot."

By high school they should have a level 2 training.

Be able to identify most common firearms and clear them for inspection.

I agree with that

@garonedin CMP garand? Nice. What condition? When I start my new job I want to get one in service grade condition

Yeah, Service Grade.

Cool

CMP sells M1911s too but they cost more than the garands and from what i've heard have had spotty condition

Best part is; I can in theory get it and just start shooting
because I got like... 200 rounds of Ethiopian Surplus fuddy aught six on en bloc clips

It came on the clips?

yes

in bandolier belts

in an m1 ammo can

all

Very nice

for roughly $200

Oof

That's actually fairly good for non-corrosive surplus, plus clips, plus ammo can

M1 garands are expensive to feed, when i get mine i probably wont shoot it much but it's a good collector piece

You also have to get garand safe ammo or an adjustable gas plug for modern loads

But yours is surplus so it should be safe

yeah, loaded to m2 ball specs

the next purchase is kinda a toss up between a ported gas plug or a slant flash can for my AR-15 to make it look like a las-gun

I got into guns recently so i'm trying to build up my collection, get milsurp, "assault weapons", and "high capacity" magazines first

The status of milsurp in this country sucks, damn import laws

yeah.
I kinda got my collection mostly filled out. Couple of ARs, Beginner Rifles, a couple of Milsurps

Canadians can get russian SKSes for $300 cad and buy norinco guns, russian SKSes in the US are $600-700

THough now that I think about
I lack Auto-loading shotguns, any handguns, any precision rifles, any pistol caliber carbines

yeah

Canadians get all the fun surplus russian stuff now

Canada has great import laws, unfortunately limited to 5 round mags on semi auto rifles though

at least for cheap

yeah, though I think m1 garands are an exception

because canadian designed

I have a budget ar, a t/cr22(10/22 clone), and a mosin nagant carbine(m38)

The mosin is my favorite gun i've shot, and i've tried out a lot of other people's guns

I know my canadian friend has a C1A1 (FAL) somewhere in Alberta I believe

Ah he must have a restricted license

Shitty thing about canada right now is that there's a push there to ban handguns and "assault weapons" after some guy went on a mass shooting and killed 5 people with an illegally smuggled handgun from the US

What's the Canadian NFA really up to these days?

NFA?

I know they're not as well known as the NRA

National Firearm Association I believe

Ah

I don't follow them down to that level so i'm not sure

it gets confusing talking about Canadian NFA because it's easy to confuse with the National Firearms Act in the US

Yeah lol

The only thing I remember was they survived a hostile takeover and were becoming more Right to Bear Armsy

Nice, i hope that happens to the NRA in the near future

We have GOA for that but NRA has a lot more members

When i start my new job i'm going to join the GOA, SAF, and VCDL(virginia gun rights org)

Yeah, I've joined ISRA (Illinois State Rifle Association) partially to fund the fight in IL, but also to get access to M1's.

it's...

It's not going well

How so

In virginia we have good gun laws but the governor is anti gun and the state legislature is only 51R to 49D

As much as our R-governor, Rauner, stalled the gun laws, he let some of them through.
And now the Legislature AND the governor is turning hard blue

We also have state preemption so even though i live in the more liberal northern VA i get to enjoy the same laws as the rest of the state

like
AWB by February kinda blue.

Damn

and of course, Chicago and the rest of illinois just... don't really like each other, so despite literally the entirety of the southern Illinois protesting, it's gonna get passed anyway

oh yeah, and an ammo tax is coming up in the legislature too

Oh yeah i think i read about that, 1 cent tax per round

"Fuck you, .22lr shooters"

and everyone knows the cent per round is gonna go up once it's passed

Everyone I've talked to says somewhere between 5-7 cents per round

Anything to push people away from exercising their rights

Literally a poll tax

like, for us in southern illinois, it's just annoying

but for people trying to practice and have tight budgets for self defense

it's possibly a death knell

literally pushing the poor out

The main reason i got into guns was the politics
I was dragged along by my grandparents to the march for our lives since we live in northern va so i went along with them and seeing the protestors pushed me away over to the pro gun side

oh shit

I had never really paid attention to the gun debate before and seeing that these people didnt value the 2nd amendment at all changed my mind

funny, parkland really pushed me to finally get my FOID

~~and wait 90 days to exercise my 2nd amendment right~~

Lol

I know in new york(may just be nyc) its a crime to touch a gun at all if you dont have a license

Some places have really bad laws because the SCOTUS hasn't really taken gun cases

Lower courts are allowed to get away with a lot

kavanaugh didn't seem to change things much either

then again, it's barely been 2 monthes

soooo

New jersey reduced their magazine limit from 15 to 10 and you have to destroy your mag, get it modded to a 10 rounder, or ship it out of state or else you can be convicted of a felony, no grandfathering

And their court upheld that as constitutional

ridiculous.

I think in massachusetts you can be jailed for life if you have a bump stock, but if you have an actual illegal machine gun you'd only get the 10-15 years federal law has

The NFA itself shouldn't even be constitutional lol

Especially in combination with the hughes amendment

yeah, but good luck convincing moderates that

Its a de facto machine gun ban

Like, the things I think gun owners should be pushing for

>CMP being allowed to release surplus machine guns (m16s, m60's, etc.)
>CC Reciprocity
>HPA

These are thing that it's not hard to convince moderates on

Lol people are scared already of machine guns, look at the bump stock panic, some people even think ar15s are machine guns due to misinformation

As for CC some places have extremely restrictive rules on who can CC to the point where only people with connections can get permits, and some people are convinced CC permit holders are just going to randomly shoot people(see the teachers with guns in schools debate)

Also with HPA most people are still convinced that silencers are what you see in movies

Then you have the incrementalist thinking, where gun rights vs gun control is a tug of war type of thing where even if what you give to the other side is harmless, you're still losing

The thing to convince moderates on right now is that "assault weapon" and "high capacity" magazine bans are useless and unconstitutional

Funny thing is gun control used to be about handgun control, they're used in the vast majority of homicides

Americans like their handguns though, so they moved on to "assault weapons"

And the more the media freaks about ar15s, the more people buy them

Funny thing about all of this is that i'm not even right leaning, im just a center left libertarian that likes to call out the democrats for their shit lol

Assault weapons is a nebulous term so that Democrats can manage to slowly encroach on rights

Yep

Even in the original AWB it banned stuff like the tec 9 and street sweeper shotgun

And in washington state I1639 redefines all semi auto rifles as "semi automatic assault rifles"

Yes, even 10/22s

In Australia our gun ban is overstated heavily by American media

It is, the buyback didnt even confiscate half of australia's guns and now australia has more guns than they did before the buyback

It also didn't have a significant impact on homicides or suicides afaik

I imagine there's a lot of "mysterious" trips to the outback with lots of brass and lead

People like to focus on gun deaths though, "look guys, banning guns lowered gun deaths", but overall deaths remain unchanged

Well people who want to kill themselves will do it another way obviously

The idea that you need to ban guns to stop people from choosing to take their own lives is incredibly insulting

You can still get a weapon if you wanted to go that way, you just need a reason like hunting

they recently banned a bolt action ar upper in straya

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/australia-bans-bolt-action-rifle-because-of-its-scary-appearance

I mean...

maybe it could've been mistake for something a lot deadlier

and fearmongering.

sure, it's bullshit, but understandable.

australia also had a panic over lever action shotguns recently

pretty sure they put them in the most restrictive category

wait there are lever action shotguns?

I only know a very actual specific types of firearms. I'm not an expert on anything, but I'm not a fucking moron.

Yeah there's the winchester 1887, that's an older design but newer designs were made for australia
asutralia put pump shotguns in a pretty restricted category, but lever action ones weren't. So in australia lever action shotguns were pretty popular as a result, but then they got pushed to the most restricted category(i believe worse than pump action)

Ah, I see.

that's probably why I've never heard of them. pump and semi-auto are more common here

My father has a 20 gauge pump and a 12 gauge semi-automatic shotgun.

they're like, antiques with how old they are though, and they work perfectly fucking fine.

Yeah I own a mosin nagant carbine manufactured in 1942 and it holds up well, only issue was the stock had a crack on it but i glued it and the stock doesnt impact functionality

Ah.

are guns just like, built really shitty these days or something?

As long as guns are maintained and stored well, with wearable parts replaced every so often(springs, magazine, etc) they can last a very long time

like in their durability?

Nah, depends on the company

for example remington got bought out and since then they've been putting poor finishes on their guns and have a tendency to rust

We did have lever action shotguns banned, as they deemed the fire rate contrary to legislation

oh dear.

mossberg is a very good alternative to remington though

they still make good guns

soon you'll only have break action with a lock that you have to use a key to open it

I may be tough with my beliefs, but I don't think an out right ban is a good thing either.

thats kind of how you need to have ARs in california, if you have any "assault weapon" features your magazine needs to be fixed into place and the gun's lower and upper receivers must be separated for you to remove the magazine or load it with a clip

Democrats love to mischaracterise the gun ban in Australia

@garonedin On the bright side, if history is any guide, NYS has a <5% compliance rate with it's own rifle registry. Plus local rural sheriffs are known for simply ignoring gun laws whenever possible (often being elected simply to do just that). https://hudsonvalleyone.com/2016/07/07/massive-noncompliance-with-safe-act/

If you want a nice narrative on how this all plays out: https://reason.com/archives/2018/02/20/after-the-gun-ban

Still won't help much in the long run and painful in what it does to availability of the fun stuff. But these things have a way of getting ignored in practice.

I joined the GOA, NRA, & SAF last year, @Grovyle. 👍🏽

cool

I'm not interested in joining the NRA though due to their politics and willingness to "compromise" (bump stocks, no NFA repeal, etc)

Only reason id join the NRA is being able to vote for board members to get the fudds out

https://imgur.com/gallery/TO8BGgw

No more compromises

I just want to own full auto and an rpg damnit

hallelujah dads and mommies, cowboys, rebels, yanks and commies, buy you're self some real red-blooded fun. If you want to make the grade, you've gotta have a hand grenade, and a full automatic G.I gun.

Daily reminder that you are allowed to own fighter jets. See the comment about Larry Ellison at the bottom of the article.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/business/Googles_Newest_Plane_Is_A_Fighter_Jet_.html

That's like saying you can own tanks but the tank cannon has to be deactivated

**Forgotten Weapons** Uploaded a new youtube video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNB_2hih31I

Ooo, neat

How much would you guys give for a day with gun Jesus

Well, its just a day, ~12h flight or so, overnight, so for me its somewhere in the 5k region or so.

My ammunition arrived. 😁

Can't use wolf ammo at my local range

Why, the steel?