Oh wait.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Whataburgercounties2.2017.png

Although I think this is an old map. [Redacted] definitely has a whataburger.

HS diploma is useless now

College means nothing either because of the trades gap

So either work at McDonalds for 10 years and kill yourself or work in a trade for 10 and be upper-middle class

Or you get into STEM, spend 10 years studying, pay off a mountain of debt and then have a cool job that pays well and still end up upper middle class

and half of those majors have you sniffing corporate or government ass for funding just to be told what your report will be, and left with little to no funding for research that matters

Haha, full ride to a Christian private college for this lad though.

I got a STEM degree four years ago and I am 80% done paying off my student loans.

What did you go into, STEMlad?

Electrical Engineering but my paychecks have been in web development.

If you go into electrical engineering, chances are that you tend to make good life decisions

Yep, I am for the state paying for college tuition, but they first need to get ride of the pointless labral arts degrees, football teams, and resort style swimming pools.

They have swimming pools in schools where you are?

Dont know If I want to envy you.

Fuck it, I am envious

getting rid of sports teams, swimming pools, liberal arts degrees are all reasons people would endure paying for college. Although i guess this could be part of your argument, different options

Dont know, I also think sports has their place in academia, problem is, too much value is put into the,

ofc it does, as does music and dance etc

if i was going to argue for payed tuition i don't think i'd be attacking those things, most of those garner public interest and return income on their own. in this case that would go towards taxes to pay for colleges, but all the same

Sports has its place in academics but NCAA sports were the games are televised to the nation in a stadium on par with the NFL or NBA with the coaches making more then the College President seems to not add any academic advantages. I understand how it is used for recruitment. But I don't see how my school wining the Salsa bowl makes my bachelors more valuable.

true

i apologize, i forgot how screwed up college sports can be in that regard

No worries, I wanted to be the mascot guy.

Tim was asking if the Right is becoming more collectivist or if it was the people who are collectivist are moving right.

I think it's a bit of both. You've got people who have been attacked by social justice types forming up on the right. Some of these are, for example, ex-Bernie Bros who had experience in left-wing grassroots organizations and campaigns who are taking that practice and ideas with them. You've also got a young, angry right wing youth insurgency affiliated with Trump and is much more likely to try and find unity and community than the old establishment National Review Conservatives who just wanted a debate. Also, as Trump is a populist and the voting blocks are shifting (the UAW danced around endorsing Trump's tariffs--which would be a huge shift in political alignment) it's not unreasonable to expect the tactics to shift with them. Traditionally, the right had more money, but Hillary easily out-raised Trump and be all accounts Democrats now sit in all the rich districts and collect far more cash.

That said, the bigger (and much more important) factor is that the right has been getting attacked and marginalized in the semi-public sphere. You've got places where the right is a clear and discriminated minority (like college campuses, Silicon Valley and Hollywood). It should then serve as no surprise they have formed organizations in many ways analogous to various minority rights organizations or the secret socialist organizations of the 50s and early 60s. I strongly suspect the places with the strongest "right-solidarity" are also those where they are most silenced or harassed (and likely also the smallest minority). We all saw what happened when Damore spoke up on his own and there were definitely people who fundamentally agreed with him.

More to the point, the right is learning the power and influence of things like targeted, organized harassment actions (such as the boycotts on Hannity, Limbaugh, Breitbart or Ingraham). Much as the left went and formed The Center for American Progress and MSNBC in response to the successes of the right leaning organizations such as the American Enterprise Institute or CATO institute and Talk Radio in the 80s and 90s, the right is attempting to form it's own version of various left leaning culture war organizations.

I can say that just a couple years ago I thought there was no greater waste of time and resources than organized street protests. I also tended to feel that personally ignoring big culture war fights was the better long-term strategy. After seeing the left wage the culture war and the vast and sudden changes around 2013-2015 followed by the un-personing, violence and career harassment by the left after 2016, I've completely changed my tune. Organized protest is a show of force and solidarity. It's building commitment for the participants while promoting a culture and *forcing* a voice to be made. It's also organization practice for more significant campaigns. I strongly suspect the strongest "right-leaning solidarity" occurs in places like Seattle and Silicon Valley where they are the least powerful. And a lot of that is learning from the left, particularly the more extreme elements.

Collectivism is a cancer that needs to be removed before it kills the host.

The right trying to beat the control left by becoming the control left isn't a solution.

(Opinion) I don't know if that's entirely the case. I still feel like the Right (Of which I'm only somewhat a part of) are still far more likely to support quietly as opposed to protest loudly. The Left, by and large, has a much bigger introspective focus on what they aren't. It's part of the reason the Left is seemingly so disjointed in what they support. They're not Pro-Islam, they're anti-islamophobia. They're not Pro-gay, they're anti-homophobia. They're not Pro-Hispanic or Pro-Black, they're anti-racist. They're not pro-woman, they're anti-misogynist. As such, they're far more likely to act out on emotional triggers, as opposed to reasoned and principled argument.

I believe that individuals like Mike Cernovich have aptly acknowledged that, and aim to use it against them to highlight the problems that world view creates. And while I think it's okay that he's doing that, I don't think it's something that appeals to the everyday conservative libertarian.

This isn't to say that the Right is all high-minded or principle-driven

Some most definitely are

But I do think that it's generally a trait of a worldview based on tradition that you know what you are and what you believe - even if you don't have an explanation for it. And that's one of the key differences I see.

It doesn't have to be the whole right. I believe the parts of the right that live in places where they are the majority or don't really follow politics are still very mild-mannered and quiet. I would say a significant fraction is changing though which is all you need for hardcore activism.

One of the key things I see in terms of protest is that the 'buycott' is far more likely than a protest.

I also thing it's changed most in places like the west coast where they are a harassed minority.

That is, if a restaurant or something is being protested by the left for some dumb-as-fuck reason

Conservatives will come from HOURS away to reinforce.

Provided they don't back down.

That's what I think the argument is.

Is the right unifying and starting to take collective actions.

Most of them seem to be reparative.

The precise tactics may vary, but that is the question.

I think the style also changes dramatically if you are in a place where you're a harassed minority and if you're in a silent majority.

In generally, we'll abandon groups that resort to hard violence, something the left won't do as long as those groups represent opposition to something they don't like.

Yes.

It's what we are that is far more important than what we're opposed to.

Atleast for now.

I think if the left turns the country into California, things might change.

Which is why Patriot Prayer and The Proud Boys seem most active along the west coast.

I do still support them. I haven't seen them turn to violence for the sake of it.

Whether they are accepted by the mainstream right in those locales is a question I can't answer. But I don't think it's a coincidence they operate in what is one of the most left-dominated corridors of the country.

I'll burn all alt-right connections, though.

I can't support ethnic nationalism.

Agreed.

But I do think that if you push and push and push, people start getting more desperate.

That doesn't make us violent, though

If that makes sense.

I think you're fixating a bit to much on targeted violence.

I think the original point was about organized campaigns.

Which may or may not be violent.

I haven't seen very many that weren't generally to troll.

I'd need to see some to hypothesize what it all means.

Boycott campaigns? Showing up to a protest march fully expecting Antifa will start a fight (and getting into said fight)? Public Graffiti?

This is "nonviolent" stuff the left will do all the time. And the right seems like it might be picking up on it.

I can't think of any solid boycott campaigns that weren't counter-boycotts. It's been shown time and time again, if you hold any meeting, rally, or bar meet-up, you're likely to get a violent response from Antifa. Again, it's a response and not an initiation. Could use some examples of the Public Graffiti, though. I haven't seen that one.

One of the boycotts that come to mind are people taking golf clubs to their Kuerig machines.

That was because they were folding to pressure from the Left.

All in all, our preferences as far as businesses go, If they take a side, we'd like it to be our side. But ideally, we'd rather them just stay neutral.

I meant to ask if you were OK with that kind of stuff. I think it's what Tim was going at and what I was taking as the key idea.

The Tea Party protests were *really* small. I wouldn't be surprised if a Proud Boys rally is now regularly larger despite being more unpopular.

Boycotts are intended to hurt businesses.

Expecting to get in a fight isn't violence, but it's not bowing out either.

Unlicensed political street art can be thought of as a form of vandalism. Or free expression.

The left has been ok with this stuff for awhile. I think the question is if the right is beginning to change it's mind on some of these kinds of tactics.

When that business takes a stance of 'anti-' whatever conservative position is held

I can't cry foul of a boycott of those businesses by those who hold those positions.

I've got a good case study on this.

Let's take the Chick-Fil-A controversy a few years back.

It comes out that Truett donates his own money to certain organizations.

Those organizations are in whatever way in opposition to LGBT matters.

I think it's misguided to attribute that to every franchise everywhere, or even to the corporation.

But whatever. Boycott if you like.

I think stuff like this crosses the line out of boycott and into something else... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0OE3OwGMwk

Being vocal, trying to convince others to stand with you in not giving this company money, that's one thing entirely. Boycotts are fine. Buycotts are fine.

But being disruptive and abusive in an attempt to damage a business and/or it's employees is a line I wouldn't cross.

Am i a complete nut? This is my opinion. I dont hold very much weight in it but here goes: The 1% republicans have staged a coup that inflitrated the Democrats, they spread these crazy ideals to them all about trannies, muslims. Illegal immigration, and the economy. The Democrats fell for it and took the bait. They started preaching this shit on the regular. They call anyone who opposes them as "fascist". To the point it is sickening. Everyone hates these faggots with purple hair as they chant abolish borders and abolish profit. Everyone starts using the term fascist or misrepresentating fascism. To the point that people actually think fascism, or modern fascism is acceptable. Then the 1%er Republicans move in fast, easily winning 2016 presidency and soon the 2018 midterms. Wide spread laws are passed easily that pertain to the economy and immigration reform. After losing in 2020 and again in 2022 the Democrats resort to acts of violence, bombing civic buildings, public executions etc. Then...... the real fascism laws are introduced. Theyve cried wolf, (fascism) too many times before and nobody takes anyone seriously by 2023 when the word is said.

Am i a complete nut? This is my opinion. I dont hold very much weight in it but here goes: The 1% republicans have staged a coup that inflitrated the Democrats, they spread these crazy ideals to them all about trannies, muslims. Illegal immigration, and the economy. The Democrats fell for it and took the bait. They started preaching this shit on the regular. They call anyone who opposes them as "fascist". To the point it is sickening. Everyone hates these faggots with purple hair as they chant abolish borders and abolish profit. Everyone starts using the term fascist or misrepresentating fascism. To the point that people actually think fascism, or modern fascism is acceptable. Then the 1%er Republicans move in fast, easily winning 2016 presidency and soon the 2018 midterms. Wide spread laws are passed easily that pertain to the economy and immigration reform.

Yes you're a complete nut.

1% does not imply republican.

Plenty of mega-rich support the democrats.

Oi i tried cutting it up but it keeps being too long

And no coup has taken place. This lurch to the far left has been happening for years and years.

Has it though? Ive never been cool with muslims and i was always a leftist

Yes. I went to university in the early 2000s and it was happening then.

"Islamiphobia" has been part of the discussion since the Bush years, yeah

I hate christians as much muslims though lol

It has just gotten steadily worse over time as 1970s far leftists moved up the hierarchy in universities and trained their replacements to be even further left than they are.

Then theyre just doomed to fail.

Now it's almost assembly line.