Singleton , have fun with “muh based black and Muslim guys”

Under Khan crime is skyrocketting

Knife crime up

Kids dying up

The movie opens with these terrorist guys trying to blow up a building, even willing to blow themselves up in the process.
All white guys, going on about 'holy fire' and whatnot.
Because... yeah... that totally happens, right?

Thievery up

Apparently acid is up, too.

Highest in the world

Sadiq Khan needs to go

He's ruining London

Civic fails , no matter what you do minorities vote overwhelmingly for leftists parties everywhere

And illegals removed

That’s why u got ur Sadiq

Civic doesn't

When its strong

Full of non English people

guys, what you need is the enlightenment.

but how else us he and his cronies supposed to be reelected if they don't pump the country full of thousands of migrants!

So it no longer reflects england

you need individual rights

Radical nationalism rn is an excuse for the state to clamp down further, it helps no-one

I'm sure they're aware that they need individual rights.

Finsbury park

you need to understand why individual rights are necessary for life and collective rights means you have no rights.

no they aren't

uh

might want to specify

nationalism doesn't guarantee your rights

Well, yeah, that's not being argued.

What does then revolver

Collective rights are a thing, they just need to be curbed. There's a balance to be had between the individual and the group.

Also yes jej this was all a ploy to keep labour in power, import a state reliant class of voters illegally

Tony Blair did this ultimately

I don't even know what you're getting at

If u act only as individuals then you will be swallowed by a group

If a mass of individuals have the same rights, and are in the same country, that's collective rights

the only way to maintain individual rights is to ensure that the population understands why individual rights are important

As a community.
As a group.

immigrants tend to do what they are told by the host country

By the ones who want to give them stuff

act as individuals working together

If you can guarantee "any one" individuals rights, then everyone has the same rights

At that point it no longer becomes a question of "who's being oppressed" or "who's rights are being violated" but who's got the best idea to lead the country

Automatically signed up to vote

Revolver u wot

if they are told their culture is important, they will perpetuate it, if they are told individual rights are paramount, they will advocate for individual rights

Immigrants tend to do what they’re told , no they don’t , not the ones we in the West have been flooded with anyways

its got nothing to do with race or ethnicity

They're perpetuating their culture anyway, though, even in the face of being in a country with individual rights.

Yeah, I'm not sure what's even being argued here. Does the government go out and personally tell one person at a time what rights they have? If they all have the same rights, that's collective rights

I still don't understand

we are telling them that their culture is equally important and not telling them why our culture is important

that is why they don't respect it

We're not allowed to, though, because "all cultures are beautiful."

True , but even if we did lots would not suddenly respect us , we’ve been flooded with the trash and garbage of other cultures

they would if we show them that our success is due to individual rights

wew

the problem is that our moral justification for rights was traditionally religious

What success , the west has been declining since the 50s

Same time individualism became such a big thing

how are you measuring that

thats because we abandoned the conception of rights 100 years ago

Declining morally , politically , culturally

This debate has suddenly shifted right above my head.

I think I'm gonna get back to my games

America is the result of the enlightenment, the decline of America is the decline of the Enlightenment.

its about philosophy.

phillosophy and ethics

we have lost them

Yes.

^^^

to the subjectivists

Indeed

what the west needs is a moral justification for individual rights and a moral condemnation of group rights.

a secular one

thats because we're not educating people how to think for themselves, only how to behave

and at that point you can just tell them to behave liek you want

you're right

thats because our intellectual leaders have embraced subjectivism/romanticism

(what we need is Ayn Rand)

nah, intellectual leaders are using it as a tool

people that think for themselves are bad for leaders because you can't control them, a horde of drones is all you need

cuz you can use the horde of blind fools to keep the intellectuals in line for your own goals

What America needs is no Hispanic immigration any more , they vote for the left and keep flooding into Texas and pretty soon Texas will be democrat because of the immigration and when that happens America is finished

the intellectual leaders dictate the structure of education and of philosophy for the wider world and political landscape

Jayred that’s one of the reasons white nations are being flooded with non whites , because they are on average less intelligent and therefore easier for a superstate to control

exactly

look: the Democrats and the Republicans aren't that different. The problem is not with immigration. Unfettered problematic immigration is a symptom of the wider amorality of the society.

IK republicans aren’t much better but they’re a bit better for your rights in America

150/100 years ago, people were flooding into America illegally: to work.

Revolver are u right wing ?

I'm an objectivist

Sensible

In other words

So mister central I can be biased basically

Cant*

I don't think its worth supporting either side because they are both coming at things from the Altruist romantacist morality

philosophy preceeds policy

What would you want America’s near future to look like

If you could , what would u change now

I'm similar to the libertarians

I would completely deregulate the market.

Return of true capitalism

As lf should be

because ultimately, the government is conceptually a destructive force, whilst the market is a creative force, and neither can change their nature.

Capitalism is globalism , communism is far worse ,

globalism is a meaningless term

Centralisation then

On ever fewer corporations

thats socialism

i mean globalism has a real meaning

capitalism is not globalism though

Capitalism is consumerists materialist nihilism , and if u care about people from other countries , especially third world , capitalism exploits them completely for your comfort

Work in some shit pile sweatshop for no money

Endless hours etc

thats not true

Capitalism being something people do

It's not a thing

before the sweatshops, there was starvation

no, wealth disparity causes poor countries to corrupt themselves and let us legally fuck them over

Pakistan ^

it just happens that capitalist countries are the wealthiest and best at negotiating

wealth disparity and corruption existed long before capitalism did

the only reason why third world countries are exploited is because **the citizens don't have rights**

politicians of countries that are poor have an incentive to sell their country to immoral corporate entities

I’m all for capitalism to a degree , I don’t think trans national companies should be able to dominate completely an area or gain to much power because they have a massive impact on politics too.

you could argue that capitalism facilitates that, but any government structure is capable of fucking over another in this way

Agree ping

This isnt some thing that needs to be fixed unless you are a 'for all mankind' type

i suppose thats why socialist countries did so well in surviving corruption over the decades

what with them banning capitalism and all

no it doesn't "just happen" that capitalist countries are the best! don't you understand that its ideas that dictate the fate of a country? Don't you understand that the success is intrinsically linked to the rights of the individual?

because ultimately, a right is a requirement for **life**

and to deprive someone of their rights is to deprive them of their means to live.

i'm with Revolver Ocelot on this

If people are genuinely as free (as we can give them without anarchy) they'll have an incentive to reach the top, they'll work hard, try to be smart

which in turn improves their country

Yes, business as it is today is done by free people who have the right to make their own business or offer their labour to others

I’m not a socialist either mate , honestly I don’t like any modern economic ideologies , there’s lots wrong with all of them , socialism is just communism lite

Freedom is paramount

Liberty over everything

(Civic)

there is no difference between communism and socialism. They both follow the same philosophy.

Singleton , what about when those minorities who think collectively vote you out of your rights for being an evil whitey

they are both morally wrong.

and those Sh*thole countries are also there because the actual smart people from there realise its shitty so they move to the west, hence the west keeps the smart people and the poor countries lose them

I thought communism was the Intended outcome of socialism?

Jayred isn’t that called brain drain

Also yes they both strip the rights of the individual far too much

no, socialism is just a rebranding of communism done in the 20th century.

seriously, learn some history guys

Eh?

we've tread these paths before.

it is, and thats whats causing major damage to those countries too, because when all the good and motivated people leave, whats left? weak idiots easily susceptible to corruption and oppression

go and read "the ominous parallels" by Leonard Peikoff.

When was communism present before the 20th century ?

Will do

Yes jayred , although the places many of these people are coming from wouldn’t succeed anyway because smart people are in a big minority

Socialism = Communism with a state still in tact

but since people can't function without a state to help them, there can never be true communism
hence the closest to it is Socialism, making them essentially the same thing

Communism was invented in the 18th or 19th century.

I see

thats why the soviet union is a "socialist" place but refered to as communists

its essentially the same thing

Also, I'd like to mention that the majority of Nigerian immigrants typically have a high class degree. They are very productive individuals. Don't blame individual people for the political systems they are trying to escape from.

where the idea is that success should be divided amongst everyone, so a "community" can become strong and wealthy

this has never worked in practice because humans are too greedy, lazy and selfish and simply not the same, so there will always be "better workers" that will outdo the bad workers, and will get demotivated cuz all the "extra work" they put in is not rewarded to them but others

this is why people in socialist places tend not to work hard anymore

Communism is morally wrong on principle. It punishes ability and rewards you for being worthless.

exactly

it enriches the use of being a loser/victim, something the progressives mimic, because it gives them pity-points for power

In such a short time

We should blame the irresponsible politicians who brought them here in uncontrollable numbers

there's a really good description of how communism becomes such a monster in Atlas Shrugged.

sadly i think the current european politicians are actually thinking they're doing good as opposed to grabbing power

they've started to believe their own nonsense because they're disconnected from the normal peoples lives because they've been in power too long consecutively

you are still missing the point. The reason there is a problem with crime is that nobody is making the case that enlightenment values are not only morally sanctionable, but desirable.

therefore, people are turning to other philosophies like nihilism (one of the roots of communism) or mysticisms like Islam.

but don't you see? thats how Muslims see islam comapred to the western values

They see their "values" as morally sanctionable and desirable

Enlightenment values is just another term of "our side knows better"

the whole point shouldn't be to find some specific values, its to find "the best" values, and we learn that by studying history and the world, and then say "lets not repeat THAT"

That's as many didn't come here with the intention of integration

In the most recent large wave

Since it got up around 300,000 per year in the UK

but 100 years ago, the Middle East studied the west to try and learn the secret to their success, but by that time it was too late. The rot had already set in, and socialism and nationalism were taking over. Thats why the Middle East is filled with Theocratic Fascist and Socialist states like Hamas.

I told you, the reason why they aren't integrating is because we are telling them to hold onto their culture.

in other words **its our fault**

nah, those places became like that because they believe in groups. its a case of "your tribe is a bunch of animals", and WE are the true faithful, and our spiritual leaders decide who is right and who isn't

Many wouldn't let go anyways and yes I can agree with that

We don't put our standards above theirs

America's problem is America. Britain's problem is Britain. Germany's problem is Germany. How hard is that to see?

and i agree, the reason they're bringing their shit here is because we for some reason as a society decreed that even though for hundreds of years, our culture was CLEARLY superior and the one people should want to adopt, we tell tehm their barbaric views are just as wise as ours because "equality"

This Is the ultimate failure of multiculturalism

yes, its cultural relativism from the intellectual class.

And it won't change until we bring back the enlightenment.

no its the ultimate failure of collective thinking, where the "group" is more important than the individual

under the current leftist "group" every single view is equal, and truth is an opinion, hence the individual doesn't matter anymore, what the group thinks, is what is truth

Self hatred and fundamentalist looking equality

and thats just madness

True madness

but collective thinking is part of the philosophy of today

its a central part of altruism.

philosophy is asking questions in everything

collective thinking isn't asking questions, its accepting orders

That is the great truth that Ayn Rand understood but everyone refused to accept

its that Altruism **requires** that you put the group above the individual.

they didn't refuse to accept, they realised Ayn Rand was stupid in her Objectivism

Also philosophy is relevant but the worst part is the post modernism, it's not enough for things to be true

They care who said it, not what is said

**Post-modernism stems from altruism**

Plato ==> Kant ==> Nietzcshe ==> Marx.

Altruism isn't the most human trait as they go

What we're doing right now is Objectivism, trying to find a way without emotions, no subjective opinions, jsut the "flat truth"

Whilst this is waht we would WANT to achieve, humans are group animals, and most are idiots

Objectivism won't work to run a society because idiots will gladly destroy it in name of whatever carrot a smarter person dangles before them

Unless voluntary out of friendship

thats not what objectivism is

I have to admit that this conversation has kinda gone over my head now, so I'm just reading.

you are assuming that people don't have the capacity for reason.

If anything its an overriding of wishful thinking

Feelings being the issue

Cynicism is the tragedy of our age. It is what prevents people from accepting that when given rights, people don't just murder and steal from each other.

People just want trump to be evil to they get cognitive dissonance and serious biases

the market is the ultimate embodiment of objectivism.

its individuals trading value for value.

i'm not saying people don't have the capacity for reason

I'm saying that the overwhelming majority of people will gladly throw reason aside in order to be in a place where they feel like they belong (the pack)

because they are told to.

no, because its SAFE

No it's inate

"no subjective opinions" is an unrealistic goal

thats not the goal of objectivism...

Humans will naturally prefer something more dogmatic and mad if it gets them Into the in group

its asserting that you have a mind and a right to use it.

no they won't! Are you denying that America exists?

People chose to be irresponsible and ignore or wayleigh truth for the animal desire for acceptance

More often than not

Anyways

America was the embodiment of the objectivist vision.

yes and as i said, the majority of people will rather be just a middle person in the group than a shining person that asserts individuality

to a large extent

America the embodiment of objectivist vision, please

it wasn't perfect of course

America is just as much subjective as the Soviet Union, the only difference is that they had the luck of siding with Capitalism

notice how I said **was**

and notice how i compared it to the soviet union, i'm talking through all time

you are still only talking about the cold war

i'm talking before that too, the whole point of the civil war was that, where the confederates wanted less rules from the North, less taxes

They asserted themselves as independents, and the Union crushed them for it

in the 19th century, individual rights were paramount, and do you know why? because individual rights were given by god. So when the 20th century comes and atheism rises, the justification for rights, the philosophy, evaporates.

that is where America is today.

thats bullshit, god didn't give people individual rights, the founding fathers did

that is why they are perfectly willing to just throw them away for a few more social programs or whatever.

their justification was god

no it wasn't

in fact it was the opposite

then why do creationists always say "god given rights"?

they wanted a land where anyone could be FREE, regardless of their beliefs, be it spiritual or political

yes I know what they wanted

because creationists are retards that think god created existance

but they couldn't morally justify it through the philosophy of Altruism, so they had to just leave it as god.

If god gave them individual rights, he sure did a nice job of protecting them for the west

I told you, the justification of god has gone. That is why the enlightenment has gone.

Altruism is bull too, people don't do things out of their own kindness, they do it for a personal reward, those that show kindness do it because it makes them feel good, not because they believe in being kind

yes it is

but its the basis for morality in the modern age.

ask yourself: is it moral to be selfish?

yes