Message from @WOODY
Discord ID: 405161899806818307
Plato ==> Kant ==> Nietzcshe ==> Marx.
Altruism isn't the most human trait as they go
What we're doing right now is Objectivism, trying to find a way without emotions, no subjective opinions, jsut the "flat truth"
Whilst this is waht we would WANT to achieve, humans are group animals, and most are idiots
Objectivism won't work to run a society because idiots will gladly destroy it in name of whatever carrot a smarter person dangles before them
Unless voluntary out of friendship
thats not what objectivism is
I have to admit that this conversation has kinda gone over my head now, so I'm just reading.
you are assuming that people don't have the capacity for reason.
If anything its an overriding of wishful thinking
Feelings being the issue
Cynicism is the tragedy of our age. It is what prevents people from accepting that when given rights, people don't just murder and steal from each other.
People just want trump to be evil to they get cognitive dissonance and serious biases
the market is the ultimate embodiment of objectivism.
its individuals trading value for value.
i'm not saying people don't have the capacity for reason
I'm saying that the overwhelming majority of people will gladly throw reason aside in order to be in a place where they feel like they belong (the pack)
because they are told to.
no, because its SAFE
No it's inate
"no subjective opinions" is an unrealistic goal
thats not the goal of objectivism...
Humans will naturally prefer something more dogmatic and mad if it gets them Into the in group
no they won't! Are you denying that America exists?
People chose to be irresponsible and ignore or wayleigh truth for the animal desire for acceptance
More often than not
Anyways
America was the embodiment of the objectivist vision.
yes and as i said, the majority of people will rather be just a middle person in the group than a shining person that asserts individuality
to a large extent
America the embodiment of objectivist vision, please
it wasn't perfect of course
America is just as much subjective as the Soviet Union, the only difference is that they had the luck of siding with Capitalism
notice how I said **was**
and notice how i compared it to the soviet union, i'm talking through all time
you are still only talking about the cold war
i'm talking before that too, the whole point of the civil war was that, where the confederates wanted less rules from the North, less taxes
They asserted themselves as independents, and the Union crushed them for it
in the 19th century, individual rights were paramount, and do you know why? because individual rights were given by god. So when the 20th century comes and atheism rises, the justification for rights, the philosophy, evaporates.
that is where America is today.
thats bullshit, god didn't give people individual rights, the founding fathers did
that is why they are perfectly willing to just throw them away for a few more social programs or whatever.
their justification was god
no it wasn't