Matt
Discord ID: 128393885519970304
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!agree
Well it's 100 Toyota but doesn't fill the same role.
Yeah, I do think it's just a real cop-out that a manufacturer with the motorsport experience and engineering resources Toyota has can't develop a new version of their flagship car in house.
That I definitely don't disagree on.
I mean they made the LFA 8 years ago.
I want this car to somehow still end up being really good, but I don't feel like modern BMW has much positive to contribute to it.
At least if you saw this Goodwood footage it sounds good, and it looks physically small.
I just think the whole thing with all the outsourcing is really weird, considering they make the extremely good Lexus engines and platforms fully in house, but yeah the 86 is its own thing.
Subaru manufactures the whole thing though.
They got the direct injection for the engine from Toyota, but Toyota isn't actually building any of them.
They got the direct injection for the engine from Toyota, but Toyota isn't actually building any of them.
Discord is fucking the dog right now
Has been all day
Having to re-send everything makes it harder to have this conversation.
The level of teasing is really ridiculous at this point too, this thing is supposed to be on sale within like a year, what's left to hide about the design?
lol
V6s are not an especially good sounding engine layout, even less so with turbos. With 400-430hp something marketed as a Toyota muscle car would be DOA these days. Especially when the 2UR already makes more than that and actually sounds good. Every review of that car would just be "I don't understand why they didn't put the 2UR in it"
The original NSX was never considered a "supercar" it competed with the 348/F355, base model 911s, the Lotus Esprit, Corvette, etc. All of those were just considered sports cars. Supercars at the time were cars like the F40, 959, XJ220 and EB110. The current idea of "entry level supercars" didn't exist.
The current NSX is a complete flop sales wise, and in kind of a no man's land as far as price and performance to the point where it's not a direct competitor for any one car.
Well remember it was also teased for literally 9 years before actually getting to production, and it was originally gonna be a V10, the hybrid thing happened along the way because it was stalled so much. Then the debut of the actual production car was completely overshadowed by the launch of the second generation Ford GT at the same auto show, which had not been tease or promised previously at all. It was a really blunt lesson in terrible marketing and pr vs doing it right.
Also the original NSX didn't bring any crazy technology to the table, that's not what made it good. It was good because it a pretty equivalent car to the contemporary Ferrari V8 models it benchmarked in terms of performance, but it was also reliable and viable as an everyday car.
I mean literally everything written about it, there is plenty of information about it's development and plenty of reviews. Do you not remember any of that from when it came out?
I think it would be harder to make a case that the NSX name is supposed to represent the latest in cutting edge technology. It had a fairly low strung V6 and an aluminum body, nothing really crazy other than good chassis and suspension dynamics.
I think the absolutely horrible marketing really worked against it too, if you tell people you're gonna make this replacement for your most iconic car over the course of a full decade, you build expectations to a point that's almost impossible to live up to.
Toyota has done the same with the new Supra name.
M is meaningless now, there are SUVs that have an M badge from the factory and aren't even an M car.
Well the Supra was also equivalent to a Corvette or 911 of the time, those cars were all in the either side of 300 or so horsepower range at that time.
The M8 GTE is also a joke because it's been racing since the start of the current IMSA and WEC seasons even though there is no M8 road car on sale.
The production version of the regular 8 series wasn't even shown until like 6 months after the M8 GTE had been racing, and you can't buy that yet, let alone an actual M8.
Everything else in WEC GTE Pro represents a road car that has actually been sold to customers besides the BMW.
Haha
I thought you were gonna say they'll buy the 835i X-Drive M badged non-M model instead.
I've been down a road like that in multiple normal fwd cars, tire placement ends up being the most important thing.
Wait, do you have the 1.4 liter engine or the 2.0?
I want the Jimny to be sold here.
Well they were never sold under that name in the US.
It was the Samurai here and it actually had and has a great reputation among serious off-roaders.
On road it wasn't so great because of the high center of gravity, and it ended up involved in a lawsuit between Suzuki and Consumer reports when they said it was likely to roll.
Damm
PT Cruiser
I feel like most of the cars I like we're probably sold in too small a volume to get on there.
Well these individual cars are really at odds with the JD Power overall brand rankings here.
Yeah we don't get a single diesel Lexus here.
Also yeah these rankings are based on problems experienced over the course of one year in 3 year old models.
I think we talked about this before and it makes no sense because Toyota has made diesels in trucks forever
And they're extremely reliable
Was that engine purpose built for that application?
I've gotta look that up.
Yeah the old 300D lasts forever, with the Hilux too, the engine that built their reputation didn't have to meet any crazy emissions standards.
Well that's why NA engines are dying out too, also a big part of why manuals are, besides market demands, it's way easier to hit emissions targets for those driving cycle tests when you can program the shift patterns to optimize results.
190hp from intake and exhaust? That's a 70% increase in total output, I can't think of any engine where that's the case.
Tune of what? An ECU remap?
Well yeah.
Same reason the top gears exist in any car on the market.
It serves the same purpose, safe fuel, do better on government regulated tests.
Not maybe.
So what would your solution be?
Then you'd have the same complaint about 5-6
Instant torque
Well I would vote for anyone who drove a Leaf in an election.
With very few exceptions Lexus drivetrains are shared with other Toyota models.
No they haven't.
On what list?
What are you referring to?
They're above Ford on both JD Power and Consumer Reports' current lists, nowhere near Dodge, Consumer Reports also didn't rank Fiat at all.
I mean these reports are annual.
And I'm looking at the most recent one.
They don't put out annual reports every few months.
Link what you're actually talking about to make it easier.
That's the current one.
It also shows the point changes from the last one.
http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2018-us-vehicle-dependability-study Both of these have pretty similar results.
Well I mean just link even some evidence to support your statement because it makes no sense to me and I've been following this stuff since the early 90s.
According to consumer reports the Toyota 86 is the most reliable new car you can buy in the US.
I mean I just linked the consumer reports listing that you said you used as a reference yourself last year.
It's right there.
Man that must be an old phone.
Every phone I've used in the last 8 years has opened links fine.
Well I would upload an image instead if I could, but only links are allowed.
They also make the Tamo Racemo which is actually pretty cool considering the origin.
No
The LC 500 is stiffer than the LFA too, but much heavier. The Supra might not actually be a whole lot heavier.
I'd also gladly buy that CLK GTR but @LOGiK can handle the bill.
They're one of the more competitive teams outside of the top 3, someone will buy them, they'll be fine.
Full lap up
Haha fuck
That wasn't in the broadcast.
Awesome.
There are actually some cars that haven't been able to attempt lap records at tracks because of that sound restriction.
I can understand someone wanting a replica because it's the only way for them to own and appreciate something that looks and feels like some impossibly rare or expensive car. I wouldn't do it though. I'd rather have that remain a dream and own the real version of some more attainable car.
Yeah, if it's something not even trying to pass as the original and just your own thing I don't see any problem with that.
I saw a 912 with a Subaru conversion recently that was really well done and looked completely stock externally, that was pretty cool, and actually a reasonable daily driver.
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