@Svenisnt it the idea that all men are fallen, and that it isnt a matter of whether you sin or not, but belief in Christ?

@Svenif im not mistaken, isnt it more an insult to His name to be a nonbeliever than it is to lead a life degeneracy?

is racism a sin? i just got kicked out of a discord channel (the 2nd time ive been kicked out of a channel) for talking about racist worldviews that ive been emotionally intellectually invested in.

im wondering if i keep going down this path it will lead me away from God, or seep into my real life and have negative consequences for me

im going to church tomorrow and i dont know if its something i want to think about while im there

@Wrath im trying to figure which church i want to go to before i go to bed tonight. i went to a lutheran church last sunday, but the pews were empty and there was no one under the age of 70 but 3-4 people.

ive pretty much ruled out catholic churches on the basis of:
1. catholics ive known drink too much, swear too much, and engage in too much premarital sex for my taste
2. the catholic church has gone soft on conservative issues
3. catholics in the usa are, generally speaking, the descendants of the worst european immigrant ethnicities: the irish, the polish, the italians

ive also pretty much ruled out the mainline protestant churches as theyve all abandoned enforcing conservative morality while the pews sit mosty empty

this leaves the nondenominational churches which are by far the most energetic and lively where i live, even if they seem to appeal to the netflix ADHD "entertain me" mentality.

whats susan mentality?

whats a guitar mass?

sounds like the nondenominational churches ive been to

im sorry if my evaluation of churches was judgemental. i dont know. i feel like im carrying hate around in my heart.

@Wrath im trying out a calvinist reformed church tomorrow i think..

calvinist reformed churches are awesome
>no rock band style worship
>full pews
>based organ player
>still use hymns
>belief in the saints, the holy triune, and the catholic church (not exactly sure about that part but it was in a song we sang)
>saw a baby get baptized
>theres actually children and families there
>super friendly people
>still have a plurality of dutch heritage dating back to the 19th century
>belief that good works are irrelevant and faith is paramount

@Mozalbete ⳩ if thats true, then God will see me when i do good works regardless. i really want to go back to this church next sunday

its because im concerned about the people in the church as much as i am mostly ignorant of theology.. so far at least

all the different denominations say the other is wrong

yet im supposed to believe in the catholic denomination purely because of tradition and the direct lineage that leads to christ, as if there werent loons and sinners along the way in that tradition as well

i mean have any of you seen the things pope francis says? like i said im mostly ignorant of theology, but i know enough to know he's probably way out of line, yet he is the divine representation of the exact tradition you say makes Catholicism the only true denomination.

the catholic church is made up of sinners and blasphemers just like any other denomination, arguably more so from what ive seen of catholics

so i found a church that seems to be full of good people from what i can tell, and i want to stick with it

@MawLr its not purely out of spite. its because i enjoyed the church i attended this morning. im only saying these things because of you guys in here telling me im wrong. how is someone who was raised nonreligious supposed to find a church non-arbitrarily, with no history or theology to draw from?

what kind of people died in the gulags? the holocaust (inb4 holohoax) had an easily recognizable motive and target demographic, but motives and the demographics for the gulags seems less clear

ok so
>God is all knowledgable
>God is all powerful
>God exists outside of time and space
therefore
>You have no independant sovereignty separate from God
>God already knows your entire story and how it ends before you were ever born

why not? can't we have free will, and yet God would still know how our story ends, and yet we still have no independence from Him?

i dont know anymore

so you think that, by your reasoning, you can imply that we are independent of God? this is to say that we can surprise God through our actions (meaning to act in a way God doesn't expect?)

could you also imply that we have no sovereignty, and still believe in free will? are these two concepts mutually exclusive?

@SUPER MALE VITALITY™ but calvinism also believes in salvation through grave alone, meaning being a bad person is irrelevant to whether he's chosen you. is that true?

@Wrath okay but i need to go to bed, so ill have to read it in the morning

@SUPER MALE VITALITY™ or maybe the ones He's chosen wouldn't be bad people by definition.

atheists and agnostics have never come up with a suitable alternative that provides the secular benefits of religion

@MawLr i dont think theres an anti-Christian "plot" necessarily. there may be SOME of that, but theres more to the story. i think for a long time being Christian was the overarching meme in many societies, so that even those who didnt really believe participated in Christianity regardless, or at least believed in God generally, or otherwise were completely subjugated as a result of promoting a different belief.

and you cant discount science. science ultimately amounts to the theories of the physical world that our limited human comprehension has formed based purely on physical evidence. with the enlightenment and the development of the scientific community, many saw reason to doubt the validity of Chrsitianity because Christianity of the past was highly literal in comparison to today's Christianity. for instance, many of you here probably believe in evolution, but are still Christians.

what you have now is a higher proportion of Christians who genuinely believe that Jesus Christ is their lord and savior, generally speaking. there is less fakery, and people are more open about their disbelief because the dominant culture promotes secular reasoning over spirituality.

@Max Mustermann | Gregor Gysi that can be true, but you have to admit old school, literal interpretations of Christianity are at odds with the theories the scientific community has come up with.

@TheImperator i dont doubt for a second that science is NOT the final authority on anything. it's limited comprehension based on limited evidence, where conclusions are drawn by humans who are ultimatly flawed and incapable of explaining the universe. the same reasoning can be used to explain why Christians themselves are terribly flawed as individuals (not to say Jesus/God is flawed)

>tfw boys scouts used to be for boys but theres still girl scouts
>tfw the YMCA is for everyone but the YWCA is still for girls

if the overarching organization of the church im going to has the official position that we should strive to reconcile racial differences and be inclusive of all races... is that a bad sign or is this status-quo in the world of christianity?

looking at the positions the organization takes on various issues, it seems politically ambiguous. for example they are anti-abortion. they think homosexual behavior is a sin, but still believe we should accept the homo, just not condone the sin. they also take the position that we should be fighting for the environment against climate change.

the specific church i went to was overwhelmingly white although there was an asian family and a couple of black guys.

this specific church organization in my area is notorius for being right-wing fundamentalists and has many members who are in politics as republicans, but on closer examination it seems less clear if they are so right-wing as everyone assumes.

are you ready Christians?

aye aye pastor!

i cant heeeearr youuuuu

AYE AYE PASTOR!

OOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH

who lives in a womb that is under new threats?

UN BORN BABIES

from australia to US we havent forgets!

UN BORN BABIES

do i need to talk to God to pray? do i need to assume some kind of praying position? sometimes i feel like i want to say im sorry, or say thank you, but when i try to think of specific reasons why i remember that God already knows everything about me, and i lose the motivation to use words or formulate sentences and instead just try to feel grateful or humble myself, usually while im in bed before i fall asleep.

is prayer meant to be a petition to God?

if a church organization you belong to asks you to pray for all people, particularly minorities and women, and to pray for "white supremacists" to unlearn their beliefs, and asks you to extend an act of kindness or encouraging words to those minorities who might be emotionally distraught following the recent shootings... do you have to do it?

are you allowed to disagree on certain things? i dont know about other denominations, but id assume the catholics in here are called to do the same thing, but it seems like, judging from this group, many dont.

@SUPER MALE VITALITY™ this church organization is explicitly saying trump is wrong for demonizing immigrants, its explicitly saying "white supremacy" is evil. its not just saying to pray for all people. its clearly picking a side here and saying that i need to pray for that side. but i like being white and i dont really care for most nonwhites if im being honest. so what then

@Wrath its a calvinist church. these people are the same who are renowned in this area for being "backwards" fundamentalists. but if thats true, then what is this politically correct moral stance?

https://www.crcna.org/news-and-views/crcna-statement-regarding-mass-shootings

many people in this church are the direct descendants of people fleeing tolerance and multiculturalism in the netherlands, and now this...

@Wrath there are no orthodox churches in my area. and isnt the catholic church just as politcally correct these days?

@SUPER MALE VITALITY™ i want a church that openly shames women for spreading their legs outside of marriage, for using various forms of birth control, and for trying to be leaders in the clergy

i want a church that isnt afraid to tell gay people they are sinning if they engage in homosexual behavior

i want a church that doesnt bow down to multicultural rhetoric, and possibly even advocates for ethnic integrity.

i want a church that enforces behaviors, and doesnt just talk about them...

im so sick of this culture we live in. i feel like a racist/sexist 80 year old man stuck in a young mans body, born into the wrong time period. i get so angry!!!!

More from my church (if i can call it my church yet)

"Synod 2019 declared Kinism a heresy. The decision came after a classis from California and one from New Jersey both sent overtures to Synod following a specific situation in a CRC congregation.
Kinism teaches that the races should be kept separate in racially pure “religio-ethnic states,” supporting white supremacy. A former CRC pastor, now dismissed from the denomination, espouses kinism and did so for many years while he and his church were part of the CRC.

...

Synod lamented “the historic tolerance and indifference within our Reformed theological tradition perpetuating hateful racial prejudice and the theological error of Kinism.” "

seems like the tribe has spoken...
@SUPER MALE VITALITY™ i dont see how anyone can turn the ship around now. is it even worth trying?

@SUPER MALE VITALITY™ this makes me so sad and ive barely even gotten involved. its like i decided to join right at the tipping point of this formerly exclusive theological tradition that somehow managed to stay true to the fundamentals even into the 21st century, before the whole thing started crumbling under the weight of secular culture. boo

maybe they will split into new organizations in protest like they did in the past

it will just become another copy of a dying mainline protestant church at this point, with a gay pride flag hanging over the front door to boot. isnt this the cause for the rise in the nondenominationals in the first place?

i dont like swearing but this just makes me feel like ahjkhajkdhgasaksghjksadhjgjsadhghsad

the catholic church: cucked
the entirety of mainline protestant denoms: cucked
CRCNA: based not even a few decades ago, but now: cucked

i guess i might go tolerate the rock-band style worship at the nondenoms in my area, so long as they arent CUCKED for Christ's sake!!!!

@limetheMANman if you find a denomination that isnt cucked, let me know, because ive just spent a good part of my day researching, and everywhere i look, i find a bunch of cucks.

liberals here in the USA will tell you conservative Christians are a menace, but where they at tho?? because all i can find is a bunch of cucks pushing progressive politics around every corner.

i thought being a Christian meant i could find a home away from the modern world, a way of life and a faith that stood strong, unrelenting.

but im quickly becoming blackpilled the more research i do. Christianity as a whole has been completely cucked for decades now, part of a larger narrative of the fall of western civilization.

its all so hopeless and inescapable.

last night i tried asking God if i'm wrong. if traditionalism matters, or if progressive ideologies are good. but i woke up today feeling no different. i want so badly to be a part of a traditional community, but its impossible to find anymore...

@Mozalbete ⳩ tell me more about how im wrong about what a church is. and i dont mean that in a snarky way, i mean literally

how is that different than what ive described it as?

>thinking any politician ever actually has a pure heart and good intentions

liberals unironically believe this

and even

>thinking any individual ever actually has a pure heart

we're all unworthy and filthy

the question is, how much worldly power do we have, and to what degree are we fallen?

yea i kinda feel like climate change is the single most legitimate cause on the left. theres obviously some disingenuity going on, but that doesnt make it any less real

both brenton tarrant and the el paso shooter talked about abuses of the environment in their manifestos

>ecofascism<

this issue alone is where i have to disagree with right-wing politics. its pretty clear human activity has created atmospheric conditions completely outside the norm of what would be occurring naturally. call it atmospheric pollution, if that helps you see it as a significant cause to fight against. its the greenhouse gases that are the biggest problem. polluted rivers or oceans are insignificant compared to this.

the fact is nobody really knows what the future will hold if the climate changes rapidly, but theres enough evidence to assume it will as the decades/centuries move on... we can only make educated guesses, but id be willing to bet its going to be a massive net negative for humanity in the long run, with a few positive aspects sprinkled here and there.

i dont buy the idea that earth will be irrevocably "broken." i understand theres a lot of memeing about climate change being the end of the world.

but i still believe we are playing a dangerous game by brushing this off as a nonissue. God created this world with so-called laws of nature, and we've been spending the last few centuries figuring out ways to manipulate them for our benefit, with sometimes disastrous results. is this kind of cause/effect relationship alien to humanity? we reap what we sow, dont we?

but maybe youre right, maybe it will all be good outcomes. nobody really knows except God, i guess. but regardless, im convinced man-made climate change is real.

i actually enjoy, in a way, being surrounded by liberals.

my town: overtly liberal anywhere within a 5-mile radius of downtown(where i spend 90% of my time)
my family: conservatism is heresy
jew i live with: ultra-progressive
my job: full of millenial and genz who just repeat liberal talking points

i feel like a warrior. i debate anyone who i think won't lose their mind, and get off on it. when i can't debate peacefully, i drop subtle hints and see if people pick up on them. otherwise, i practice self-control.

because of this, i get tons of practice arguing certain ideas, and i think im better for it. ive been doing this for a while now.

but is God conservative?

does serving God mean being conservative?

*as its defined in the modern world

@pinkfloydfan123 im not all that far from Chicago myself, relatively speaking. my family is from Chicago, if that says anything, which i think it does lol

what is freemasonry? i imagine a group of masons (builders) who had political power, but i also imagine its much more complex than that

i tried to read that wikipedia article. now im even more confused

what i got
>catholicism was slacking in brazil
>the church sent bishops to whip them into shape
>freemasonry had infiltrated the church, but they were excommunicated
>a power struggle insued

here in the midwest people can be polite and sugarcoat things even if they dont really mean it

but what if you actually want to call someone a cunt as an insult

mmmhh southern charm

smooth talk meeeee

id totally live in the south but
>too hot
>blacks literally everywhere

otherwise the south is based

every girl ive ever been with is from the south

they were both terrible but still

i dont like cursing... even the nword..

me?

isnt cursing a sin?

>be me at work
>a couple of young ladies showing off their "assets" walk out of the store
>my coworker: "thank God for yoga pants"
>me externally: haha
>me internally: may the wrath of God strike these ladies with a cold, hard lesson in the virtues of modesty, for so help me i'll do it myself

imagine praising primitive animal-like environmental equilibrium instead of praising empires that dominated the world by abstract use of the prefrontal cortex. one of these systems is objectively better than the other... its certainly not arbitrary.

its like the native americans in the USA. it wasnt until europeans arrived that there was the where-with-all to turn the most geographically advantageous location on earth into a great and powerful nation.

you know what makes western civilization so great? its the fact that there is a concept of self abstract from the surroundings.

imagine being white and watching that video on your phone or computer and thinking primitive lifestyles are somehow superior. the amount of in-group bias whites like this have prevents them from seeing all the great and amazing things THEIR ancestors did, and prevents them from feeling that guilt-complex as they themselves partake in so called "white supremacy"

@Dasick

>the only reason native americans were conquered is because they were getting drunk

suuuuure. it was actually more like a combination of superior might and disease being on the side of the europeans.

a people who were btfo don't conquer. the eastern coast of north america isn't an iroquis confederacy, last i checked.

europeans in north america were on foreign soil, and of course, if youre in a war, there are casualties on both sides. but if were comparing dick sizes here, its pretty clear who came out on top

@Dasick imagine thinking that third world immigration to western countries is equivalent to europeans conquering foreign lands. did the europeans live on the native american dole when they came to north america? were they invited and provided for? no, they came in by force and had to defend themselves, and eventually conquered the land.

imagine thinking that beaners could conquer the USA by force. if it wasn't for the powers that be allowing immigration, they would never be here.

on the topic of natsoc... you guys are forgetting one important fact. hitler and natsocs thought that Christianity was holding people back from doing what needed to be done. it was a pagan ideology. it saw Christianity as ultimately as an offshoot of judaism, which lets be honest, it was and is.

i mean its true. im just saying. you cant really deny it. it doesnt mean the Jews who exist after Christ aren't wrong, but in Christianity the Old Testament God is the same as the New Testament God, and long ago jews were God's chosne people. all of this befor Christ

John 8:44

ok, like i get that jews weren't a Godly people AT THE TIME of Christ, but much of the Christian religion is still based on judaism as it existed long before Christ. you cant deny it

moses, 10 commandments, noahs ark, etc etc etc

@JoeyJoestar1337 explain the 10 commandments, explain the Old Testament

ok wait that logic doesnt follow

ok wait i see

so what your saying is

the judaism of old, before Christ, is the same as Christianity, whereas the jews of today are the actually "offshoot" is that what you mean?

i see

ok but still God as He existed before Christ was a jewish God, no?