@Wrath looks like someone else should have the trap role

eks deeeeeee

ok so
>God is all knowledgable
>God is all powerful
>God exists outside of time and space
therefore
>You have no independant sovereignty separate from God
>God already knows your entire story and how it ends before you were ever born

This doesn't account for free will

why not? can't we have free will, and yet God would still know how our story ends, and yet we still have no independence from Him?

@ninjacats are you an atheist?

i dont know anymore

Becuase free will defines our path.

Like, the only end we can be certain of is death, but how you get there is entirely up to you, not God

Some denominations dont believe in free will and say that all their actions have been decided for them anyway and use that as an excuse to act irresponsibly

so you think that, by your reasoning, you can imply that we are independent of God? this is to say that we can surprise God through our actions (meaning to act in a way God doesn't expect?)

could you also imply that we have no sovereignty, and still believe in free will? are these two concepts mutually exclusive?

The ultimate misunderstanding of calvinism is that it's justification for shitty behavior, it's not. It just treats free will as a system of human understanding, not a divine system because God is sovereign. You're still responsible for your actions in Calvinism, God just knows you're a shit already if you're gonna decide to turn out a shit.

It's probably a common misunderstanding because people actually use it as an excuse IRL 😛

@SUPER MALE VITALITY™ but calvinism also believes in salvation through grave alone, meaning being a bad person is irrelevant to whether he's chosen you. is that true?

I can explain the Catholic view of predestination if you want Ninjacats

OH GOD OH FUCK

Curaed group

Cursed

like my page pls

https://www.facebook.com/Wrath0fTheLamb/

@Wrath okay but i need to go to bed, so ill have to read it in the morning

@SUPER MALE VITALITY™ or maybe the ones He's chosen wouldn't be bad people by definition.

The Catholic view is 1st degree predestination

God knows everything that will happen

But he didn't choose it

Calvinism is second degree

Essentially, you were born to go to heaven

No matter how you go about things you will always return to God in the end as you are destined for it

Move chat to Filth pit

Yeah, essentially God set everything up exactly as it was meant to be, meaning they have the most literal interperetation of sola gratia. Those who leave the church were never part of the church, those who sincerely come to Christ at the last second do so just as they were meant to, by absolute grace. No part of it pretends to predict who is who, and who is predestined or not, only that in the end everything works out according to God's will, and we won't know what that looks like until it happens.

Calvinism is dumb

You have to accept God freely

No one is destined for heaven

You choose the path, God just already knows

That's the point though, you still do. Calvinism doesn't say you don't, only that you were going to.

Calvinism asserts that God chose you

Instead of you, of your own free will, coming to God

It's not perfect, but I never fault a system for trusting God more

Can anyone here tell me Nietzsche worldview is gay

I read Bronze Age mindset

It's gay

frick off