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@livid_scrooge That's true but I mainly mean high-IQ influencers I guess, people who study politics. The rest mainly just go with the flow or follow their tribe or whatever

@Boop / 브파 / C'thUwU They're not gonna answer that question

Try to move them? No move the border around them

i thought my jokes were bad

California is lost

It's funny that when @lungfish brings up Groyper talking points, Ford responds to them as **White Nationalist** philosophy (when he would reject it if asserted by me).

And snake uses word "we" **ADMITTING** that he's a **White Nationalist** rather than a tradcon/paleocon whatever muddled label he prefers.

**THE MASK FALLS OFF**

I AM A WHITE NATIONALIST

Well at least you admit it

NICK FUENTES WOULD CALL ME A WIG NAT

WE DONT AGREE ON EVERYTHING

DO

YOU

The issue is not that you're a WN though, the issue is your proposed strategy

UNDERSTAND

?

@whiic Lungfish was talking about WN, not Groypers

Honestly I regard groypers as essentially WN. I don't see a significant difference aside for they are trying to be media savvy

@snake Ok, so you are a white nationalist but "don't call me nazi, bawwww".

OK, KKK.

@snake Do you agree that the path should be the goal?

Nazism isn’t white nationalism, they killed millions of slavs

Groypers are just the smarter WN

They thought slavs were sub human

@Monstrous Moonshine Then how come I've never heard "real" white nationalist mention USS Liberty, but I've heard Groypers mention it.

@ETBrooD what path?

remember when the nazis politely asked the jews to leave, and it was legal so therefore it was ok and didnt escalate?

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Restate I lost the plot

Philosophically, in general

Regardless of what the goal is, should the path be the goal?

I think this constant disavowal of the Nazis is kind of sad and lacking in integrity. Everyone knows the WN love the nazis but they know they can't associate with it. It's an unfortunate position to be in

@whiic How come you and Hitler both drank water?

Uh I don’t quite follow sorry @ETBrooD

@lungfish Not really

It's a philosophical question

Many WN detest Nazis

Whatever your goal is

Like the ends justify the means?

Do you agree that your path towards the goal should be the same as the goal itself?

its an unfortunate feat of bad genes that they think that way @lungfish

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Specifically libertarian race realist types

@Monstrous Moonshine Many Revolutionary Communists detest Anarchocommunists and many of them detest Antifa.

"The ends justify the means" would be the opposite of path = goal

Doesn't make them that different, just tribal.

If they detest Nazis it's mainly over nuances, or their failure on Russia, or something to that effect

And mostly that detestation is performative; many of them (like me) have watched The Greatest Story Never Told

So like the goal should be to follow a good path? @ETBrooD

No, what I mean is this

Yeah, usual WN arguments against nazis aren't policies, it's strategic shortcoming of Hitler, loss to Slavs, not winning the war.

@lungfish It is over many things. Most of America was essentially WN till 1965, yet none of those would've had particular obsession with Nazis

And because tribally they want to be American variant of that, not pro-Germany.

where the blacks justifed in running out all the white people in south afrrica?

That's why they say USA was national socialists in the 40's.

And they kinda were. They had racial concentration camps.

Humans are tribal by nature

damn japs

There was an American Nazi movement which was reasonably successful but when we went to war with Germany that all ended because it was no longer acceptable to the mainstream

And nigger cannonfodder squads.

Using niggers like Imperial Guard.

the way god meant it to be

If your goal is, lets say, to put freedom above all, for example.
Is it ok to - on your way towards said freedom - infringe on some freedom, or not?

You can interchange "freedom" with anything else

When WN say they are not nazis, they mean they are "the good, American kind of nazi".

Policy wise, what is the difference?

AFAIK, same game, different teams.

So basically, my goal is a ethnostate, would it be ok to hurt...

@lungfish In 1943, 90% of Americans said they'd rather lose the war than end segregation. Were they all Nazis?

White people? Optics?

Or people in general?

(And most of WN would probably say USA should have partaken in WW2 so they aren't exactly anti-German-type-of-Nazi, either.)

@Monstrous Moonshine I will request a source on that since I've never heard it before

Sure

They would have preferred if Ameri-Nazis didn't fight German-Nazis.

And I'm willing to accept edgy sources, it doesn't have to be in the New York Times

If your goal is the ethnostate, then the question would be this: is it ok to infringe on the construction of an ethnostate and temporarily increase the number of other ethnic demographics in order to eventually have an ethnostate?

https://muse.jhu.edu/book/30108

Chapter 3, Page 81 @lungfish

But they are totally not nazis even when they are ethnonationalist AND socialist AND authoritarian AND culturally pro-censorshit, AND against free speech AND Jews.

Yeah sure

Otherwise they are nothing alike to Hitler's Germany.

Ah yes, once again the Tribe is providing the best WN statistics

Ok, so then you consider the goal to be above the path

I’m not seeing a problem

Use libgen to pirate a free version @lungfish

Looking into it now

Oh, yeah, this is behind paywall. Can you quote the relevant portion?

Since you think the goal is more important, this means you are likely to break your principles, which means you're unprincipled, since you would even break your promise of an ethnostate temporarily

Sorry, I know I'm asking a lot, I'm just curious

And maybe now you understand why I consider so many WN's to be fools

They think the ends justify the means, which as I see it only results in a straying away from the goal

Whether I agree with their goal or not

I thought you said it was the opposite of the ends justify the means

@lungfish

The opposite of it is "path = goal"

You don't agree with that idea, since you said you would increase other ethnic demographics if that furthers your goal of the ethnostate

"90% of the American public said they'd rather loose the war than give full equality to the American Negro"

To be honest I haven’t really thought about it that deeply

Most people haven't, that's why I asked

Also being earraped in VC

Also, when their goal is white ethnostate (with less minorities than there *already* is, meaning closed borders is not adequate solution), and path is unimportant, you must take it with grain of salt when "Genocide Not Required, Voluntary Self-Deportations and Encouragement".

I'm willing to take that at its word, somewhat, but I'm also curious about the cited source there. I'm not trying to be a badger, but I wonder what the poll context was, that's all. It doesn't really matter though; I see it as believable that quite a number of people might have responded in such a way at the time

@whiic yes exactly

Now, most people have multiple goals in life

No just redraw the borders, see whiic wants to make it seem like are only option is violence

The declaration of "no genocide" is never of the same importance as the goal of "white ethnostate".

@lungfish So my point is that being a WN can be mutually exclusive to being a Nazi

That the only way to do this is violence

We have the situation RIGHT NOW where violence isn’t needed

The fact that the refer to Iceland super majority in a vacuum, and a goal, reveals how **TOTALLY INDIFFERENT** they are to what goals they need to take to make USA into Iceland.

The other issue I have with WN's is that, since they so often agree with the idea that the ends justify the means, their other goals and values (not regarding the ethnostate) are also put in question

WHO THE FUCK TALKS ABOUT ICELAND LMAO

I want to find this guy

Who talks about Iceland so much

@lungfish

Saying "I'd rather lose the war to the Nazis than give up segregation" doesn't *totally* support the idea that WNs don't have Nazi sympathies. And I will admit that I, personally, have some Nazi sympathies. I'm not playing the leftist card here

And rather than having principles, they make declarations on reduction of purity, like instead of 99%, they are happy with 95%, 90%, etc.

As if we could trust them.

Because those are the cucks in the eyes of more pure than them.

Wish I knew about this libgen website earlier

something sounds incredibly strange about 'my goal is to create an ethnostate'. i dont know anyone that sets their goal to have a specific set of political rules where you live... such an ideological weird concept to me

And those who are more pure, are on the right. **AND YOU NEVER PUNCH TO THE RIGHT.** It's the rule.

@whiic That's the third issue I have with WN's, they will eventually start infighting and then their true principles will come out

I guess since Charlottesville the "never punch to the right" is in the trash bin, but that's only proof of your lack of principle. You tossed that principle away.

There's nothing principled.

Like much of rightist parlance, "don't punch right" is a parody of the left's "don't punch down", which is equally ridiculous

Because principals are made with a conscience commitment to it, loyalty to ones own just comes out and if it isn’t controlled you get a confusing mess

"Never punch to the right" is a lack of principle. But tossing aside "never punch to the right" because of Charlottesville is about being unprincipled in being unprincipled. **THAT'S GUINNESS RECORD LEVEL OF LACKING SPINAL COLUMN!**

I'm loyal to people who deserve loyalty

It must be earned, always

Now, who wants to VC?

How do I know I can trust a white guy over a black guy, just because of their skin color?

Join VC @ETBrooD it will be much easier to talk about this

Which VC?

@whiic Are you willing to join VC? I will if you will, but I understand if you don't want to

Tholos news

I don't have a mic.

I can join in a few min

Also, Finns speaks very bad English, even if they type fluently. Have you heard Räikkönen?

I’m ok with a accent

Finnish English is no accent. It's "Finglish".

Though if you did speak I would have to ask you what you said

It's worse than Indian tech support scammers.

Finnish English is only rivaled by Engurishu.

Surprised you don't have a mic on a modern computer, but that's fine

VC with a bunch of people of different views does make a Friday night more interesting

Which is funny, because Finns have no problem pronouncing Japanese words fluently since they are read is they are typed (in Romaji in Japan's case).

Hearing Americunt weeaboos trying to spell a title of some anime or waifu always makes me *cringe*.

@lungfish will you join?

Maybe I will, but I want to keep having conversation where whiic can respond, which is here in text

You can join the VC. I might join as listener.

It seems like the conversation has mostly died, so I'll offer my view of politics. I have spent tons of time on the right-wing, but I've become more moderate recently because, honestly, being right-wing is too stressful. These days I'm focused a little more on making the best of my own life rather than changing the world, which I've mostly come to accept.

Whiic is the most interesting person in this server, along with BrandonChimaria (｡◕‿◕｡✿)

You never cease to appraise my Photoshop skills from like 10 years ago.

I'm just hear to listen

I've used nazi avatars for that previously mentioned like 10 years of longer.

But it was before leftish nonsense.

I did it to trigger furries and promote furcaust.

Youtube Furry Wars.

You noobs were not part of that Lolocaust.

(Referring to voice chat.)

It's ironic that you have a nazi avatar and still condemn nazis so harshly

Because I'm actually the ironic nazi. Those others feign ironic nazi because they know that real nazis get bank accounts shut down.

I don't view actual nazis spouting nazi memes "ironically" any different from actual communists joking about whether communism allows you to keep your toothbrush.

It's black "comedy" about how awful they are, only they aren't even *actually* ironic about it.

They aren't using hyperbolic black comedy to make the statement that X is wrong, and I'm also horrible for making jokes about it. Which is what most 9/11 jokes are among non-Muslims.

WNats joking about Holocaust is more like what Muslims joke about 9/11. There's no satire there, only appearance of that.

Which is why I hate WNats, because they are **RUINING** my favorite black comedy by making it mainstream.

🍪

x 6 mil

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/634415983741763594/642943077513822249/6_Million_Cookies.mp4

⏫ But is that black comedy?

Yes

Idk

Don’t give a shit about the Holocaust

How is it "Yes" and "Idk" at the same time?

Shit was like 80 years ago

And unrelated to America

Different opinions @whiic

Duh

But one objective reality, dude.

De de dur dur, my opinions matter

Probably trust ford on that then

Cuz I didn’t read into it

Just laughed

We know a lot from 2000 years ago, and we suddenly pretend we cannot know what happened a couple of decades ago.

Why does the lesson have to be learnt from the Holocaust and not the holomodor ?

Or other genocides

Errr... I never said that.

I think we should learn from Holocaust **AND** Holodomor.

Genocide bad

Ok I know

And I do agree Holocaust is over-emphasized. The solution is not denial. It's pointing out that USSR was even worse than nazis.

And I agree USSR was worse.

I'm Finnish for fucks sake.

I don’t deny the Holocaust

Of course I agree.

@snake Tell it to Fuentes.

He doesn't either, it was in response to a superchat

It's the hole you decided to lay in.

@Monstrous Moonshine Not really a defense. If an SJW gave 2 dollars to Sargon, would Sargon agree with the SJW just because of the donation?

And if he did, would that be a good defense on his moral character, selling his beliefs for 2 bucks?

He made an edgy joke in response to a superchat

Big deal

Joke? Someone said "Idk", i.e didn't even know if it was a joke.

I think it was a joke

And someone who is an *actual self-identified white nationalist* didn't know if it was or not. Doesn't that concern you when **political commentators** make statements what sound ridiculous but don't carry any signifiers of being a joke?

Like: Green New Deal

Well, those included not just commentators but a few elected congress people.

So it was even worse.

Maybe he shouldn’t have said that but it sounded like a joke

I still don't like shielding behind "it's a joke" if it shows no sign of being a joke, and if was a joke, would benefit your opposiotion. Why should I **ASSUME** it was a joke in those conditions?

I mean he’s laughing

He says he’s a irony bro

It’s framed as the fucking Cookie Monster

So USS Liberty is irony bro?

Supporting Israel is irony bro?

Ree.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out the USS Liberty

It's factual information that more people should know about

@lungfish There isn't. I just don't understand why that was relevant in today.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/634415983741763594/642943077513822249/6_Million_Cookies.mp4

@ETBrooD

Stop spamming.

<:DrinkBleach:590859953225334794>

<:comfort:592107824826417204>

@lungfish Had Charlie Kirk denied USS Liberty incident **BEFORE** Groypers brought it up?

Because then it would actually be relevant question.

@whiic you can try a little harder. The USS Liberty is relevant because it brings into question the Israeli loyalty to the United States

50 years ago?

You do hold quite a grudge.

50 years ago is seminal to the US-Israeli experience. It's shocking that Israelis would attack a US boat even though the US had done so much for Israel

I think there's better examples of lack of loyalty, like Israel spying US trade secrets in recent decades.

Israel is not a good ally. Period.

@whiic You do for something that happened 80 years ago

USS Liberty is a bad example.

@Monstrous Moonshine Did 6 million die on USS Liberty?

Heck, the ship didn't even sink.

You're being disingenuous here

<:pepelaugh:544857300179877898> <:pepegun:588019479401726001> <:mutt:462285123421732874>

You should just accept that the USS Liberty is messed up.

And it was a borderline case to begin with... meaning it did sail close to Israeli waters during active military conflict.

Accepting that the USS Liberty situation is bad is not the same thing as embracing full on Nazism

Even snake sides with me that there are better and much newer examples.