The paperwork involved is it right

@Ivanfr should the government block them from adopting?

idk

there are lots of kids in foster care

i would think even 2 same sex parents is better than a foster home

I would have to look at the stats on mental health of kids that are adopted by gay couples

plus suicide rates and all that

i doubt they are worse than those of kids in foster care

You guys just have to drag it back to the GQ don't

whats GQ

You

The gay question

Let it be known that I'm actually laughing right now...

idk what you are talking about

@RyeNorth this is why i want to break up the benefits and protections into different pieces with different criteria.

rather than needing a giant list of exceptions and different clauses.

"want to raise a kid? be under the same roof with at least 1 other person, you get these benefits for as long as the kid is under working age. (or legal age, or whatever age we decide is good enough)"

"living together in an environment that is basically no different than a married couple, even if you guys are just friends? Here, get these benefits"

Let it be known, I don't actually think being gay is moral, but it's none of my business what two people do, and valid points have been made for the basic protections. At the same time, most of the incidents such as this that have put the right under a under attack has been an attempt to undermine marriage anyway. And it's not your average same sex couple that does it. I don't think that marriage should be ruined for those who wish to partake in it, nor do I think they should be required to marry two people they disagree with. Secularizing marriage is the best way to preserve liberties without destroying tradition.

in other-words, the government ruined marriage

as they do everything they touch eventually

imagine my shock

You're not entirely wrong

The real problems come from reactionary meddling without foresight

government itself is reactionary meddling.

i think government is just a tool,

The issue lies that the overwhelming majority has no interest in what is being done, not know how, nor care to participate
As long as they FEEL like things are going well

So all you need is a group of people to lie and tell people what they wanna hear
And then you can just control things with peoples blessing

Secularizing would not be a drastic change in text, what revolutionary socially

But revolutionary

Essentially, it disarms the debate without any real significant changes being made

And puts government in its place, that's always good

isnt the US govt secularized already

it is the ppl that are not atheist but there is little to do about that

I mean they vote for "christian" politicians

It is secularized, except when it comes to Old institutions that aren't.

That's where the whole system goes autistic

isnt it in paper 100% secular

The same people arguing separation of church and state incorrectly I might add, or arguing for the state to force the church to do things

what institutions are you talking about

its secular in technicality.

for example, there is no real proof that marriage was only between a man and a woman for only religious reasons. However, it also had no defense for those benefits for being kept between a man and a woman for secular reasons

If church and state are separate than any religious argument against gay marriage must be considered moot

As far as legislation goes

my point is not religious

That means the state has to give ground

I was making the point that perhaps gay relationships are regressive for humanity

I am an atheist

As far as legislation goes marriage laws are designed to offer people an incentive to have children

the only reason would be just the benefits for having kids. and it would then be argued that they would never have a kid to qualify for them anyway

Because without a new generation populating the country the country weakens

exactly

However

Homosexual couples don’t produce children

and I assume they cant raise them very well either

even if they dopt

adopt*

They actually can

Homosexual couples are just as good at being parents as straight couples

I doubt that very much

technically homosexual couples can produce children. its just one parent would have to adopt the child, as it would most likely be mother/father by a surrogate

out side normal adoption

The study that deemed them worse was horseshit because it compared gay parents to intact straight parents which is inherently flawed when gay marriage isn’t legal thus gay households aren’t as stable

It depends on if they're trying to make political statements with their children.

why would gay couples be less stable because they cant marry?

Gay parents did just as well as unmarried straight households

that doesnt make sense to me

Because without the legal contract you are inherently less stable

if they are a good couple that can raise good children what does it matter if the govt lets them marry or not

I see your point but I dont think that is the reason why they perform worse at raising children

If two people are married they have incentive to stay together. Separating has costs.

Marriage is essentially a proclamation that two lives are in essence one.

It's not a new concept

the children are more reason to stay together that marriage is

u cant kill ur kids but u can divorce

And it's not just a Christian concept

Unmarried people do not have these costs, a single bad fight can result in the end of the relationship as there is no major cost preventing one party from just exiting

if they do that then they are inmature

and shouldnt have a kid in the first place

a bad marriage is worse than a good divorce

for the children

marriage made more sense when "until death do us part" meant living until you were 50, and your kid was grown up at like 15.

since 3 kids with the same person would fill up most of that 50 years time frame.

Should children be taken from broken households and put into stewardship by that same logic?

“A bad marriage” which again, gays couldn’t have until a few years ago

tbh I consider homosexuality a mental illness

They couldn’t have the stability of that marriage

Re: same-sex couples producing kids - Didn't they find a way for lesbians to have biological offspring (with each other, that is) through some kind of off-brand cloning tech a while back? It's probably wicked expensive but I'm pretty sure I remember reading about it

oh pls no

It's evil.

2 men is bad but 2 women is worse

All of the lesbian offspring I know of have been through surrogate fathers

well i mean, i don't see why modern science can't find a way to fuck with producing haploid cells.

Where they just insert a sperm donation

to create basically an egg from a dude, or sperm from a female.

I can think of why they shouldn't

although for lesbians, they would only ever produce females

That is true

^

even if the kid has a penis

They wouldn't mind -_-

since guys carry xy, they could, with the right know-how, use the x to produce an egg. And then they would be getting sperm from the other partner which would still have a scatter shot of x and y. But for a lesbian, the sperm would only ever have x (as well as the eggs)