would you say that in a way that's not a metaphor? I am small brain

@methdragon we already agreed that different types of societies in different stages of stability would be less likely to have fascists appear

that's not really accurate

as far-right ideas have become mainstreamed, they've only grown

talking with them has failed massively, see far-right nationalists elected in the americas and all over europe

their platform is infectious and has only grown from being exposed and debated

there are many reasons for this happening but the fact of the matter is, talking to them does grow their platform, absolutely

or, more realistically, talking to them in public is what I mean

and those strategies work very well on the general population

@PerformedShelf by far-right I mean "more nationalist, racist, and reactionary than the previous decade's status quo"

@methdragon for engaging the fascists specifically, it is not worthless to talk to them, but publically broadcasting their ideas spreads them

@PerformedShelf in general, status quo of the past decade is global neoliberal capitalism

their message, even if factually wrong, appeals very effectively to general population, who don't really think very deeply about what they believe

@PerformedShelf it necessarily does; if one is opposed to the progressivism of multi-racial society and border deregulation, it is ethno-nationalism

that is the very basis of what ethno-nationalism is

absolutely 👍🏽

What does diversity have to do with it?

Define "diversity" for heck's sake, if you're going to use the word

@PerformedShelf "but are against the rampant unchecked influx of immigration due to the impracticalities and racial tensions it causes" this a component of ethno-nationalism

@methdragon so what are you trying to say with regards to diversity and nationalism?

no

@Atkins I don't think I ever mentioned "should"s or "jail"

so... no?

@PerformedShelf I never said it was unjustified or malicious ethno-nationalism, but it simply is.

@methdragon yeah, that's stupid

@Grenade123 I'm not sure what you're trying to say; I couldn't even parse that message. Could you say it more simply? I'm small brained.

@PerformedShelf I don't think so, it's a different level of ethno-nationalism but still a similar ideal

@methdragon yeah, that's a pretty shit idea in my opinion

well, for example, the US is an unfounded colonial state in the first place, and thus should be abolished and have no power over who passes through the region or not

@methdragon Yes

@methdragon No, all states are unfounded

Why do you think so?

@PerformedShelf I think it's reasonable to say "non-retroactive" ethno-nationalism is still that, but I get what you're saying that it's a different phenomenon

@methdragon I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

Stating that all modern societies are unfounded and evil is not a valid solution to the argument?

@methdragon who said anything about going back?

@PerformedShelf I would say that based on how I define the word, I probably wouldn't budge on that lol; ethno-nationalism is the idea that nations should restrict who is allowed to enter the nation based on race or origin, which fits what you're saying

Yes, I said that

@methdragon "abolish" doesn't mean "rewind"

@Grenade123 I'm not sure what to tell you other than "progressivism of multi-racial society and border-deregulating " does not mean "accepting all individuals or cultures as exactly identical in worth"

@methdragon violently overthrow all states and establish a workers' society

@PerformedShelf "and that it might be prudent to restrict immigration after a period of influx." is nationalism, if applied to races is ethno-nationalism

it may be pragmatic, but it is still that

@methdragon define "socialist" and "communist"

@Grenade123 the working class

@methdragon oftentimes people use definitions of words that don't mean to them what they mean to me, so I like to make sure we're on the same page

@Grenade123 that's not what working class means

@PerformedShelf ethno-nationalism isn't necessarily coincident with ethno-state, I would say

@methdragon more or less yeah

@methdragon not the second definition, that's not what communist means

@Grenade123 what you're saying is "many people in the working class can change to a different class" which doesn't really affect what I'm saying

@methdragon not surprising

@PerformedShelf "but is pragmatic about the details is not an etho-nationalist" I think at the very least they're a nationalist, and if their restrictions are applied to race as well, it's ethno-nationalist

@methdragon communism is a stateless, classless, international society wherein generalized commodity production is abolished

@Grenade123 in this instant? you shouldn't

@methdragon you can believe that if you want, it's certainly a tough thing for people in modern society to conceive of

@PerformedShelf they're certainly different things, sorry if I was confusing in saying so

@Beemann define "non-hierarchal society"

@methdragon not necessarily, but in general I would say it's likely that unity amongst humanity will come about from a sort of outer-tribalism, that is, the desire to fight against a threat beyond humanity

a great natural danger, or extraterrestrials

historically, opposed groups have showed an ability to unify when threatened by an outside threat

@Beemann there's plenty of different ways, e.g. command economy, AI, or just general cooperation

eventually, post-scarcity production

star trek is essentially a mid-stage socialist society

that's not really accurate

you must have watched the recent sargon video

socialist society is not mutually exclusive with property

in a socialist society, workers can own their own means of production

for example, picard's family has a family owned vineyard and stuff

@Grenade123 for all we know, it's collectively owned

in general though, in the marxist sense star trek is socialist

because of the abolishment of generalized commodity production

@Grenade123 that doesn't even make any sense, if me and my wife sign a lease on a house, it's not suddenly unowned

we both own it

? ? ?

if you have problems with collective ownership I invite you to read kropotkin, he writes extensively on how it works

I'm off to eat lunch now

No deaths? lame

DM me if you want to argue more, I'm leaving

!agree

https://www.axios.com/trump-birthright-citizenship-executive-order-0cf4285a-16c6-48f2-a933-bd71fd72ea82.html trump to remove birthright citizenship

funny how reactionary communities like this tend to attract jew-hating people 🤔

JuSt AsKiNg qUeStIoNs

Banned for what?

Huh. Thought this was supposed to be a pro-free speech server...

Hm... strange how this server just ends up having to purge jew-hating individuals so often.

Of course. I'm sure none of the people here hate jews or muslims. None at all.

@Hiniku Are you high? Fucking everyone knows about holodomor

Well, like... 99% of the time I mention the soviet union to somebody, the first thing they mention is holodomor.

In my experience it's pretty well known.

@Hiniku to be fair, not many people lol

@Hiniku like I said, most of the normies I've talked to about the soviet union mention holodomor

just my experience

I don't think so, it's a separate phenomenon.

Maybe? I dunno, it's a different type of genocide. Like... we don't discuss the Indian and Mongolian genocides alongside the holocaust.

Whether they're different in severity, motivation, or practice.

But among genocides I'd say the holocaust is uniquely vile, in terms of industrial extermination and ideological motivation.

@Hiniku Source on that? Everything I've read says that about 3m ukrainians died, average estimate by historians

Even the highest estimate I can see for holodomor, 7-8 million, is still below what is generally agreed upon for holocaust, which is about 12-13