the only possible reason i would want to leave turkey and go further into europe is for the economic prosperity

in effect, i am no longer a refugee

that's what you need to understand

i don't hate refugees at all, i think ppl have valid reason to flee syria and etc

but i don't see how it is our responsibility to then have to babysit a huge chunk of the middle eastern population when they are in our country for economic reasons other than fleeing conflict

i don't think they are necessarily gaming the system but i think they're trying to get into europe because it's economically affluent and they have better prospects there

im talking about the UK mainly but it's more broadly encompassing the entirety of europe

i would have been better saying continent

country #1 = their native country

?

what reason would there be for that

Because afaik that logic could be extrapolated to literally every single country in Europe

and every single country in the world to be honest

literally every nation will have some capacity of hostility to newcomers, a lot of the time for perfectly valid reasons

well there is

particularly concerning wages, but thats another story

again, incorrect but you're straying from the point

are you just gonna go off on some dumb tangent about something i can debunk again or do you wanna stick to the actual convo?

i have actual data on economics btw if ur really interested

alrigght guess we're doing this then

gimme a moment

no i've got actual economic journals for you

because oddly enough this caricature you have made of your political opponents has very little validity and most people here actually have an education in economics or etc

Camarota, Richwine, and Zeigler (2018): There are No Jobs Americans Won't Do)
https://cis.org/Report/There-Are-No-Jobs-Americans-Wont-Do

This shows that of all 474 occupations in the united states, only six are majority immigrant (both legal and illegal). Those six count for only 1% of the american workforce and even in all of those individual fields, 46% of the workers are american born

yeah i figured that since most of your ilk argue that, i'd get it out of the way first

> yeah i figured that since most of your ilk argue that, i'd get it out of the way first
@BIGMAN

As for immigration and wages, what you often see in both the USA and UK are foreign workers that are able to operate at a much lower cost (subsequently outcompeting native workers) as they are also willing to lower their living standards in order to both optimise profit margins and outcompete the native workers in terms of price

the most common way that this is done is by squatting in an abandoned house, sharing houses and housing costs, etc etc

massive problem in the uk

In terms of higher skilled immigration, it selfishly removes the much needed professional workforce from third world countries that crucially needs them, and instead uses them to prop up our own bloated government welfare programs (which i think are a good thing btw we just need to reorganise them) - it also displaces high skilled native workers from the workforce naturally

We tried to regulate that but it does nothing

that entire approach failed in the UK

because both the immigrants and employers don't care about regulations

the immigrants are happy working cheaper and living with lower standards since it's still better than their home country

the businesses are happy because they've got cheap labour and fatter profit margins

we've had all sorts of regulations ever since the 50s when we introduced Windrush immigration

the idea itself just simply doesn't work

not to mention that it doesn't address the overarching wage depreciation caused by an outright greater supply of labour

the UK is notorious for having overregulation

im not a libertarian or anything but we have really strict regulations here

no you don't get it lol

I'm not rlly sure what you're trying to say here

i'm sure there might be some validity to what ur saying in the context of america

but here in the UK things are considerably different

I think it's still a good thing to compare

i already gave you a study earlier

you haven't showed me anything

again just goes to show how much of a caricature you have of people before you speak to them

what happened to that 'good faith' character you were playing earlier on the stream?

because it seems to me that you can't distinguish where and where studies are not relevant

ye good obfuscation there bud

you came in here and said u wanted to hear us out and etc

then why do you resort to this gay tactic of just going 'duhh doiii u dont like to read studieeee duhh'

both of those statements are entirely built on assumptions which contradict what i've already told you

i gave you proof from an economic journal

I gave you an argument based on actual reason with application to the real world

what more could you possibly want from me or anyone else here

yes it shows that we have minimal economic dependence on immigrants

and that you could probably remove all immigrants from the workforce and there would be little to no differenc e

gay semantics again

it's a massive number in very small fields yes

but in the overarching economy it is next to nothing

and like i said earlier (which you agreed on is something which exists) - most of those non native born workers are displacing native born workers from the workforce since they are able to outcompete them artificially

i.e if they were removed from the workforce, the previously displaced workers would likely fill up the remainder needed after they were removed

im assuming that's legal work ofc

ye i see

i think there's some validity behind blaming businesses ofc

but there's still a huge deal of responsibility among the immigrants who know exactly what they are doing

Here's the thing you don't seem to understand i wouldn't blame you for assuming

what matters to most of us isn't actual GDP growth or the bloating of massive businesses, we only rlly care if the economy is afloat and whether people can provide for their families

i'd take a downscaled GDP for a self sufficient economy where someone can provide for a family of 4+ with just 1 working family memeber

any day of the week

Also i read through the study and i don't dispute any of the data but it ties into what i said earlier

most of these jobs can be done by the native populus

it's just there is really shitty infrastructure in allowing them to get to these jobs, i know for a fact it's true in the UK but im gonna assume american education is pretty shit for getting people actual careers too

In that sense, i would rather guarantee the native populace had strong career prospects which can fill up these critical fields, i.e nursing or etc instead of them failing school and being unemployed; instead we just ignore that issue and siphon labourers from other countries

btw most jobs like that will probably be lot to mechanisation sooner or later

not necessarily nursing ofc

but definitely manual labour jobs like that

i think there was a study on it i cant remember but ill do a quick look

i think mechanised labour is good to some capacity but obviously i'd rather see the populace have good job security where they can provide for themselves and have systems to fall back on i.e safety nets

anyway i'm gonna go get a meal and relax for a bit since i just got home from college

if there is 1 thing for you to understand, it's that we're not free marketeers by any means ^^

ye

its just schizophrenic as fuck

q posters are the most annoying

in terms of like foreign military intervention we are all in agreement

it does differ in terms of how we want to conduct other foreign policy ofc

but most of those differences are superficial i would say

anyway i go

anyone know when AFPAC starts btw?

tbh very few ppl here are actually nazis

fascism is too broad of a political ideology to boil down to certain things, since different forms of fascism have different integral characteristics

i.e nazism is very different to falangism

to be fair you used a terrible definition of fascism

most people are retards who haven't read actual fascist literature

im telling you now that the definition is very different

im not saying that to spite you or debunk you but u need to get your definition right

and you don't recognise that like i said, fascism is too broad to hold a consistent set of characteristics