@moira I was born and raised LDS. I love fellowshipping, studying with and of other Christian denominations & religious concepts. Still, the, "Mormon" church is what rings most true to me.
Though, admittedly, I do not walk the "straight and narrow". I've stayed often and far from the set narrative, dogma, of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints and am clawing my way back.

Protestantism wasn't divinely inspired. It was formed, literally, out of protest.

In brief: 200 years ago (during the second Great Awakening) a young boy by the name of Joseph Smith Junior was reading the Bible when he came across James 1:5
the next day he went out to the woods near his home in upstate New York, to pray. Soon he was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ, whom proceeded to expound upon him the narrative that No Church Was True. . .
Later on, he was visited by the angel Moroni who showed him the record of his people, aka the plates of brass.

One moment please and I'll fetch the official proclamation...

The Family: A Proclamation to the World

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world

The church sanctioned polygamy in it's early years, yes. From about 1830s to 1880 when Utah became a state. In other words, it's less than half our history and not even all that impressive when you look at other things we've done, so people are silly to keep beating that dead horse.

@Draško yes. We still are guided by prophets, seers, revelators, apostles and other dignified leadership positions. We're a well oiled machine.

@moira sh*t. I'm still trying to get things right so I can have ONE woman.
So yeah, I'm not personally keen on pleural marriages.

Hey @lemiwinks , I've got people asking questions. 😁

@moira oy ve. Yeah. That's silly

A simple look at the chronological order of when the different books of the were written then later organized dispels that condition almost immediately.

@Draško ha no

@Draško the only inconsistencies I see, are all the half truths and logical fallacies haters try dumping on us.

@moira there are witnesses to Christ in person, within the BoM.
Furthermore, brother Joseph claims to have actually met God and Christ in person. He had, as Dr Timothy Leary would say, "the psychedelic experience".

> if you ever edit the bible you don't go to heaven
@Draško so... We're only ever to read it in it's original Greek, Hebrew, Aramiac?

@moira Christ had disciples in the promised land as well.

> @Gothik Extravaganza the burden of proof is on you pal.
@Draško "begging the question* by resorting to the most basic logical cop out. Where do I need reproof on?

> you know how many saints have witnessed angels, the apostles, other saints in their visions?
@Draško do tell.

> Jesus Christ stopped living an earthly life LONG before Joseph Smith
@moira so says the atheist. Sorry if I discount you on account of your own admitted disbelief.

> i've shown you that the book of revelation debunks mormonism
When and where? Best DM me so I can gather it all without excess clutter of a chat room.
> that's not the logical cop out
@Draško then what do I need to prove to you?

> I believe there is a God, and and believe Jesus died and rose again, however there are things in my personal life I struggle with.
@moira cool story bro. Then why did you previously call yourself an atheist?

@Draško I've already debunked that Revelations bit. You want I should do the leg work and provide actual citations as to which book was written last and when they were all gathered and arranged? Without looking, I think one of Paul's letters was last to be written. Might've been 2nd corinthians. Just ask and I'll research.

@moira it's not really complicated. Atheist = without (a) God (theist). What you are is agnostic. Without (a) knowledge (gnostic). In very brief translation.

@Draško the only struggle I have, is maintaining a dignified debate rather than lashing out in a string of such egregious insults it'll likely get me banned from this group because you two are so densely ignorant it's f*ck all annoying.

> Mormons believe that the original bible was edited
@Draško even protestants believe that. Nice spotlight fallacy there.

@moira I'm looking, I'm looking. Not seeing anything you've said which I've not replied on.

@Draško#963 what's there not to understand? Protestants even believe the Bible has been altered. So to merely pin that to Mormons is a fallacy.

@moira what proof do you have to that claim? That he ascended to heaven at the end of the gospels? BoM literally picks up on that narrative, as I said, Christ visited the promised land and ministered therein for some time as well.
Furthermore, as Drasko alluded to but dropped, there have been plenty other people claiming to have visited by Christ and his angels in various places within the last 2000 years of recorded history.

@Draško hey, I like that guy. Just watched his Valentine's Day video. 🍿

@Draško if they didn't murder everyone, how come Martin Luther had to hide in a castle when translating it into German?

> you're ignoring the political climate that was around when they murdered everyone
@Draško oh that justifies it. "We were killing everyone, so these few people, so what?" Papa Stalin would be proud of you.

I can type and listen AT THE SAME TIME

WOOOOO MAGIC!

@Draško count your blessings, brother. I go through phones yearly.

God be with you until we meet again, Drasko. It's been fun.

@moira baptised, taught, prayed, captured, crucified, resurrected, taught some more, ascended to heaven. Comes down from heaven to teach the Nephites.

> and it is easy to claim that you were visited
@moira this is true. So read the BoM. And testify to it's validity on your own. Hmm, there's a thought. Do you own research IN something rather than AGAINST something.

@moira the fact you keep calling it Mormonism means you've studied it from an outsiders perspective.

And the most you've used to "debunk" is that revelations cheese. Which, in turn, I've debunked.

Revelations is correct. Yet, those lines do not contradict the BoM because if it did, those lines would discredit the Bible as a whole.

@moira now, you want my personal opinion on the works brought forth by Joseph Smith Jun?
I find the whole thing, highly compelling.
For example, last week I was hanging up in manitou springs, local art Mecca, and I spent the night lounging in the Matè Yerba factory, a quant deli ran by a religious group calling themselves The Twelve Tribes. My friend, Nadiv, works the graveyard shift. I kept to myself in the corner with a copy of Doctrine and Covenants as well as one of those "pocket Bibles" which is New Testament with Psalms and Proverbs tacked on the back.
It really wasn't a busy night so my friend would occasionally drop some scripture references to me. No lie, I am in awe and respect for his skill to know do many biblical verses from memory. Matter of fact, he's probably the only person I know outside the LDS faith who can spit references with such acrument. Point being, everything he said, everything he referenced, harkened back to what I was thumbing though in the D&C . it's as if they nothing short of reaffirm everything each other says. The Bible and the Doctrine and Covenants.

I wish I could tell you more. But alas, I've got to get going for me evening class.
God be with you until we meet again.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/454863840744570884/675192854364160003/b6b4y6z40df41.png

Yes, sorta.

🍿
Hello all

How goes life?

@Draško BLASPHEMY!

@Dr. Emperor Thanatos the wise yes and most of the events therein deal with us mere mortals.
But then, that's not the point. The point is the inspiration many get from reading the said holy books is beyond the norm.

@Dr. Emperor Thanatos the wise define real.

> @Dr. Emperor Thanatos the wise please don't rely on your opinion of the bible and Christianity on a Mormon
@Sentient23 did your mom drop you on your head as a child, like, a lot?

@Sentient23 sure thing, coomer.

Yeah. Really is. 😂

@moira evening

@Maksim okay boomer

@Maksim you're an hour behind me as well. It festers.

You are what I say you are and anything short of that is heresy

Verily

No u

Unlike you, @Maksim, I don't turn away like a coward.

@moira hold that thought.

Me? I am, well, me.

That the best you got, Anon? Memes fail ya so you resort to attacking a man's mental health? Weaksauce, brotha, weaksauce.

🍿

Hmmm. I kinda wanna try state capitalism... But, my gut feeling is, the state would fuck that shit up and fast.

@Maksim stop it. You're embarrassing yourself.

Because you're a hater too. That's cool.
Matthew 5:11

@Sentient23 not in the least. I mean to imply all criticism on me, stemming from the faith I keep, will only serve to have me vindicated in the end. So by all means, continue in your err. I've been through worse. You got nothing on me.

@moira child, please. Try to be more coherent in your diatribe.

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, tis true. So do tell brother, what by His grace gives you the right to criticize what you do not want to comprehend?

<:wtf:591182282648190986> 😆
> You've rejected Christ despite thinking you haven't

> I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints,

So absurd.

2 Nephi 25:26 "...we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."

Brother, within this morning, I have talked up more of our great Redeemer than you have. All you've provided is condensation. To wit, I laugh at. Yes, I laugh at your feeble argument whilst I sing a prayer in me heart that our God whom reigns above all may soften thou heart whilst keeping me from my own iniquities. @Sentient23 I tell you, brother to brother, I'm not the most stellar, uplifting example to the church, yet still I stand upright and testify, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS IS TRUE!
May God Almighty have mercy on any man whom selfishly attempts to remove me from His vineyard.

@Sentient23 stop diddling little boys and do something more productive like canonizing Ronnie James Dio.

@ofvo I'd rather be autistic than a pedophile like you.

@Maksim stop being a faggot. You wanna talk about Heaven & Hell. That's relevance to the course.

@Sentient23 ahh, you don't deny it.

Do I need to bring up links to the most recent crimes of the Catholic church?

Denial isn't just a river in Africa I suppose.

The topic is religion. You're trying to mock my faith yet let's see the history of wrong Catholicism has done. Not very Christlike I'd reckon.

Cute but still wrong.

I'm going back to my studies. And whatever you say is still toxic, Catholic.

> no, I dont like him, he doesnt like me, its settled
@Sentient23 stop acting like your shit don't stink and we won't have a problem, brother.
> You've rejected Christ ***despite thinking you haven't***
@moira The fuck you smoking, child? Nah on second thought, it's irrelevant arguing with someone whom publicly couldn't tell the difference between agnostic and atheist whilst privately telling me they switch beliefs up every 3 months or so. I will say though that I find it quaint people still bag on polygamy when given our 200 year history, we stopped practising such about 140 years ago.

First of all, @Maksim the question wasn't directed towards you, kindly back off.
@moira because I have searched far and wide, I have pondered long and deep and I have prayed, humbly and meekly to be guided to the truth and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the most true out of everything else I've happened upon so far.

> You've been tricked by false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing
yet everytime someone tries telling me that, it's only ever based on half truths and misconceptions. Worse yet, when they try to defend their faulty positions, they only wind up falling further and further into logical fallacies.

@moira no zoomer. Again, you're oversimplifying the situation to excuse your own ignorance. Go away.

Whatever, child. Go away.

https://youtu.be/6cqFwbFPm00

Unpopular opinion, I'm still waiting for a full album from Vanilla Ice on Psychopathic Records.

@21ooAB unfortunately so.

@Eoppa more entertaining than cutting off little boys balls so they can retain hitting the high notes after puberty?
When did the practice of making castratos officially end?

@LeSickleStauche indeed. We're not overpopulated, merely mismanaged.

So, you don't have a specific date, like say you do when the Spanish Inquisition ended?
Honestly on the topic of castrados, I suspect the late Ronnie James Dio was one himself.

But has the church ever come outright to condemn such practice?

> Getty Lee has an even higher voice, I wonder if there are any secret castratis in music
@Eoppa exactly what I'm wondering my dude. I'll have to do more research on the Rush frontman, all I know at the moment is he's a Jew. Whereas Dio was Catholic and only had an adopted daughter which sparked my curiosity in the inquiry you yourself put forth. 🤔

Not to my knowledge, sir. Though, I did check the Wikipedia for Getty, it says

>Lee married Nancy Young in 1976. They have a son, Julian, and a daughter, Kyla. 

On the other hand, I looked up Axl Rose who's been able to hit even higher notes yet, no stable relationships in his record, let alone known children. So, 🤷‍♂️ possible he's a castrato. Someone with a Twitter account should ask him. 😅

Depends on the government and religion

> Mormons don't count
@Maksim cute, yet so gay.

@Maksim first of all, Mormons are Christian. We're not getting into that argument again. Secondly, I prefer Colorado, but there's still plenty of beautiful spots next door, so to speak.