different individuals have drives for material power and will go to different lengths to exert it

so no matter the system there will be a more material minded part of society that wields more worldly influence

movements are just hijacking other peoples wills tbh and are the opposite of philosophy

why trust the individual man when you could instead lead people generally to proper thought systemically

what do you mean, that is the thrust of all recent philosophy even despite counter-enlightenemnt sentiment

if a person rightly regards themselves as a self aware cog in a determined machine and then articulates how their self is a structure of language

they will no longer be under the foibles of dreamers manipulating them into patterns for their amusement

there is no un-corrupt movement nor even all encompassing good just a set of preferences in the mortal coil

and to help people reach a peacable environment for life in the most peaceful way possible should be the aim

which varies to group and individual broadly

what collective do you refer to?

its goals are usually defined rather brutely and enforced rather uniformly

this is an aside but are any of you fine folks studied on historical catholic liturgy

im writing something and need those historical deets

yeah im gonna have to find some dyed in the wool fundie or actually email a historian

or learn latin lol

Its kind of an odd thing i need in pre-tridenterian mass and ritual information

so id have to find some server afilliated with religious history as the texts are sparse on the exact subject

compatibilism is the only one that makes sense

its hard to really boldly claim that decisions are more than the output of recursive reaction to the environment and genetics

but at the same time empiricsm will never be able to determine something with surety

so there will always be room for an inexplicable phenomena in the micro level decisions

Even if you accurately modeled every process of the brain postulating a thought, which must be different for each individual, you would be left having to explain why the quantum particles that dictate the broader movements are arranged in their particular way

and so on and backwards

so empiricism and casulity will never really meet each other

in fact one is needed for the other

how can you make decisions if your environment is not ordered and determined

if your decision just flew away in some non linear time soup then it could be hardly called will at all

it isn't so clean i think

existence is out of your control, its a false dilemma

the question is there some sort of flexed muscle or nerve that directs your will moment to moment

and im partial to the theory that the subconcious makes your decisions ultimately, but it is trained by the concious language and models of the mind

more mystically more like

well insofar as the information that can be generated and interpreted is inexhaustible it allows freedom enough

a person would need infinite time to exhaust all arrangements of thought and that no one has

and empiricism will never yield a causuality of thought only a physical description

so we are ostensibly free enough to choose

well any thing in linear time is determined

well yes there is often a confusion by the ability to make choices with a will, and complete freedom from causality which is silly

well everyone is fated in a sense, as there will be a time at which our activity terminates and then it could be described in exact scientific detail and no matter what we choose that is true

@vespertilionineVigilante I would say that is simply a lack of self comprehension no? As the beliefs fight they are synthesized into a amalgam of sorts

if you were sufficiently clever, and could look in someones head such a conflict could be graphed and modeled at all points i think

Your subconcious assigns utility values and bellies you out of indecision based off of your accumulated preferences, which are in turn based off your experiences and internal thoughts

but it is closer to the distilling of a complex situation to a gut animal reaction

than some enlightened choice

Your gut animal faculties and genetics with only minor consideration to things like beliefs, desires and temperaments which are ultimately just structures of language in your head you've assigned various values. The freedom we have is ultimately only to construct an instruction manual for our instinctive stove-touching bodies to face the world and we don't comprehend the ultimate moment a decision is made . However I do think the mind in its sanctuary is free enough to tune and twist the language which is important to it, and thus defines behavior outside of the basic level.

but overall the same animal body which ran from predators and associated smells and sounds with danger or gives you social warnings is what drives you moment to moment

*bap*

Well that is exactly what I was implying, that in constructing or changing paradigms of thought is the only place where will can be said to exist but it is a slow process and you don't really make decisions you build belief stuctures so when you come across a decision you frame it in your structure and then follow the value structure you built

And so far as we have will, it is only over the course of long days of introspection to change the fundamental methods by which our careening chemical clockwork reacts to the world

for example if you were to come across a time sensitive problem that required agonizing, your decision would ultimately be predictable based off your recent thought lest you decide to overturn everything at that given moment which would likely take too long and so we can only set up rules to be followed later unless time is no factor

>no pantheism role >no anprim role

oofed

although certainly more prim than an

based uncle ted's new technology political dichotomy isn't yet popular

it would probably range something like transhumanist - technocrat x luddite - primitivist

government mandated lesbianism for girls under 18

well i would slot more into a luddite territory, but theoretically a primitivist could be online trying to gather the faculties or people to legally live a primitive lifestyle, albiet it being extremely expensive and difficult these days

read a history book of an era you hate

*dab*