that's how we really are, the current state is an aberration

It indefinitely requires a crude mask over itself, a stiff structure of religious liturgical formality

a blip

that goes for any such thing doesn't it

the natural moral law turns into legalism

A man chasing meaning under religious predispositions

it's only when one aspect is forgotten

that it becomes crazy

Is a man destined to be forever lost and never to really grasp the nature of the wold around it

legalism on its own becomes crazy, but just the fact that there is some structure

nothing wrong with that

And therefore to truly feel alive

In a living, not a dead world

if the west duys, 80% of africa and half of india will just die

also 50% of the west

will just die

I accept that man needs to feel that

but don't accept that he is "destined to be forever lost"

And therefore to understand the real nature of this alive world, what it is, how it relates to him

it's the opposite

when he has some framework of meaning, then he isn't lost

A religious man is a paramount example of a man who cannot see things under his own nose

the non-nationals in europe will mostly die

A greek or germanic pagan is a religious man in this view?

or not

yes as it's the same shit

It's folly to think such a person is blind to some aspect of life

if he actually believes in it

when you can easily observe godless folk

and see they are off their rocker entirely

whereas the mass of humanity, for most of its history

has had religion

are they?

god has saved nobody

your god will not save your life

what does that even mean

I'm not talking about the truth claims of any particular religion

just that this is the healthy psyche of human beings

thinking and living like this

that it's the actual truth is a further step

I will only say, since I have to go and have no time for a decent answer

most people want explanations for what they can't understand

based on lack of education

they don't really want explanations

or ignorance

they want justifications

they want a convient explanation

god wills it

is convient

no, this is what dumb neo atheists say

That a man's pursuit of "framework' and "meaning" is a pathetic and hilarious show

"the pagans believed thor caused thunder because otherwise they wouldn't know where thunder comes from:"

it is ultimately pathetic

as we are still apes on a rock

we are just apes burning dead animals from millions of years ago

instead of apes digging in the dirt

we aren't though, we are what we are

we are apes

and reducing that to what we are not

He truly shows he isn't ready to present neither the most modest efforts to pursue either knowledge or accomplishment

isn't any significant point

Will talk to you later

later dude

"we're apes on a rock WHOA DUDE"

you will die and in 200 years, nobody living will remember you or know your name

simple as that

so what

what's your point

whether I die and turn to dust doesn't matter

to the point that for humans, our lives still need a certain framework of meaning, which is religion

humans aer nothing, there is no god, medieval philosophers realized that there could not be a god

that we perceive the world in a certain fashion

when they used aristotlian logic to disprove neo-platonism

you've gone down a different track now

in the 1100s

proving or disproving stuff, philosophy, none of it matters

religion in humanity precedes agriculture

precedes any kind of social organization

religion is basically magical thinking

there's a good case for saying that humans only got together at all

"magical thinking" is real thinking

how is it real?

they're real thoughts that people had

attributing meaning and justification to various aspects of your life

but how is it real thinking?

it's how you live anyway, without realizing it

no, most people never used magical thinking, even in pre-historic times

in their dailyt life

the thing you are calling "magical thinking" doesn't exist

yes it does

no, it would be the same as delusion

magical thinking is a delusion

the term you refer to as "magical thinking" encompasses two things

being stupid and/or crazy

and considering the world an alive thing where life matters

or that matters in some way

no life matters

I think I should elaborate on matters

all life could die and the world would not care

it would keep on orbitting around the sun

yes, but mattering is not inconsistent with that

pagans were exceptionally fatalistic

which is slowly twirling around a black hole

"everything will die, the end"

until it collides with another star

or runs out of nuclear fuel

okay, sure

the world could end right now

there is no allah

there is no jesus

there is no yahweh

there especially is no yahweh

lets see how you feel about it in 20 years

@fallot I see what you mean, but is it "religion"? "idealism" perhaps?

you can call it idealism if you wish, I think that term doesn't give you the actual picture of what exists and existed in mankind's consciousness

I think certain forms of idealism could supplant "religion" for a while

idealism isn't holistic

mankind's consciousness matters not. most people do not think in meta terms

how is the average person more important than an insect

or a dog?

an insect has wants and desires'

as does a stream

hey, from your framework, they are of course not any more or any less important

there is no importance or value

in the way you think

yet the way you actually live isn't like that

you "arbitrarily choose" your value

your mind denies value, your body accepts it

"practical, yet false, value"

I consider about half of all people to be irredeemable sacks of shit

http://charltonteaching.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/the-west-must-awaken-metaphysically-or.html

@The Enlightened Shepherd , the above re: your comment about framework and meaning

@Salt you may find it of some value too, maybe

UNIVERSALISM IS FECES

yes they realized it was false in the 1100s when they got a real education system other than rote learning

When you go into "Jesus didn't exist, Muhammad didn't exist, they disproved God in the middle ages" Maarat mode it won't really end up in a discussion

@Death Strike's Bat the concept of god as a "man" or the whole universe itself?

the concept of a prexisting universal ideas

@fallot is not speaking about universalism

fallot has different ideas about deities than their religions do

Universalism is within-particular-religion

also Jesus has way more evidence for existing than Muhammad

Universalism is within everything

it's not in any particular religion

certain religions aren't run by inbred jawas that chop your head off for questioning their mumbling book

My "universalism" isn't particularly different from Perennialism

but I wasn't going there anyway

What matters @Death Strike's Bat ?

that post-dates who they claimed to write it and I doubt he would've approved it in that form.

What is important

anything? nothing?

the gospels are the most copied books of antiquitiy and late antiquity

For most of the history of Christianity in the West I am sure you would be slain for denigrating the Bible publicly

isn't that true?

no

The Church just makes you say the church is right in manners of doctrine.

just ordinary people would lynch you I mean

Orindary people couldn't fucking read

doesn't matter

and even if they could, they often had different ideas of god than the churches

plural intended

seems pretty irrelevant to what I said

whether they did or didn't, they wouldn't take kindly to someone dissing the bible

would they just let that go?

Did I diss the bible as a text?

The bible is a much better example of it's time period in late antiquitiy and the dark ages

than the koran is

there are exponentially more manuscripts

Good afternoon, gentlemen

hi @MRB

@Death Strike's Bat you made a reference about inbred jawas having an unkind reaction to someone questioning their religious text, in this case the Quran

yes

I responded that this was the case for most of the history of Christianity in the west

essentially

no

present a disagreement then

the bible is not the word of god

irrelevant

the christian god transcends human experience

despite being human

irrelevant again

why don't you just clearly say

"No, if someone cast aspertions on the bible throughout most of Christian history, they wouldn't suffer harm"

is it not true perhaps?

Muslims can still be inbred idiots, with that being true/false

Christianity doesn't ordain killing heretics as a religious tenet.

furthermore Orthodoxy and Heresey have different implications

than in Islam

You're not addressing the issue

Why is that

for what they do cosmologically

It doesn't matter what either religion says about heresy

yes it does

No, it doesn't, because you could get lynched by angry people over much more minor shit than that

but frankly the christian mobs are usually more interesting in forcibly baptizing heathens

and killing jews and muslims

I just don't understand why you cannot acknowledge the simple logic

it's not like it affects your position

or forcibly baptizing them and then killing them

so at least their souls would be saved

be that as it may, how would they respond to someone casting aspertions on the bible in public

would they let it go

would they respond with mild censure

or would they be madder

it's really simple I think?

What is there to textually criticize about hte historiocity of the gospels?

okay, you're just not going to answer are you

suit yourself

Other than matthew, mark, luke, and john didn't write them?

and they didn't know jesus?

"It's all bullshit"

the critique doesn't have to be true or false.

http://www.sfgate.com/business/technology/article/Cyborgs-at-work-employees-getting-implanted-with-11046009.php

Will such a thing ever catch on? I think it's a pretty big jump from even wearing such stuff

to actually implanting it in your body

I think it won't take

not as things currently stand at least

would any of you accede to such a device if let's say you were sure there was nothing shifty going on?

A few months ago I saw a common core question (language arts) asking students to write a paragraph supporting a new microchip implant. I think it may be more palatable in the future as it's already being normalized now.

Looking for the article now.

Really? Fascinating

I believe it was a part of the US Common Core curriculum. I could be mistaken though.

I can't find anything googling offhand, where did you encounter it?

I'll take your word for it but I'm curious

Ill find it - I'm equally curious where I saw it and the context.

http://i.imgur.com/rZJDGZI.jpg

Meme magic

@devolved I'm reading AnonCon

I'll paste a section as an example of where his worldview just falls apart, totally inconsistent

One worrying aspect is leftist r-strategists tend to have high creativity, perhaps as an outgrowth of an evolved drive to create and exploit alternative resource streams as a way of avoiding direct conflict. As a result leftists tend to operate in these fields, and exhibit some measure of competence.

So r-"strategists" tend to have higher creativity? Woudn't you expect higher creativity from K-selected populations that have to make do with limited resources or poor conditions?

this kind of incoherence pops up every time I see r/K stuff applied directly to liberal vs. conservative

Indeed

But would you say it works, loosely

That it's more true than not

no, I wouldn't, but I would say you can use it as a framework to understand other stuff

for example, the situation of black people in America and welfare

certainly you can make an argument that this is a population that is "r-selecting"

more false than not I would say

one more thing about AnonCon @devolved

he has this certain tone

"pssst, hey guy, yeah, you there"

dark alley dude with secret tonic

Yeah

He's an asshole

@fallot Haven't got to the reference I mentioned earlier, but here is an example: Poems to Play with (in Class) Sample Unit of Study for Grades 3-5 suggests “Baby Ate a Microchip” by Neal Levin

http://schools.nyc.gov/documents/teachandlearn/Poems_to_Play_With_in_Class_final.pdf

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/47159

It could be a figurative reference, but reference in a positive light just the same.

This is ubiquitous in larger city schools too. https://www.rt.com/usa/texas-school-id-hernandez-033/