It is yeah, the history of wild cat species' is pretty distinct from the history of men I'd assume @BabygottBach

<:smugooze:398100987866251265>

someone else already posted a PCA chart earlier

@fuguer my view is that there is no genetic environment scheme. It’s that genes react to the environment to make a trait.

you can't make informed decision without correct data

@Leaf, are wildcats of the same species as men?

No, and?

why do you place such weight on the species classification, its quite arbitrary

if you cancel white man the exponential population growth will collapse back to reasonable numbers. If you want to be one of the chosen prep yourself or your progeny

There are never genetic variations within species which impact behaviour?

So why bring them into a discussion about human history?

if we treated "humans" like other forms of life there would be lots of different sub species, at least three

Are individuals with, for example, hereditary disease, indistinct in ability and behaviour from other individuals free of such disease? @BabygottBach

@Nerthulas, no come on, explain that reaction.

we are not created equal

objective scientific data

<:JFGOD:439598359628611604>

With your cheap, copout nuance, @Nerthulas

species classification really is a minor issue because some have higher reproductive rates and other are lower it doesn't change the philosophy that drove the population growth to unsustainable levels

Genes when it serves us, culture and environment when it doesn't

Equal by what metric?

@BabygottBach do you understand that there is a continuum of life, and that 'species' is a relatively arbitrary designation?

Are individuals with, for example, hereditary disease, indistinct in ability and behaviour from other individuals free of such disease? @BabygottBach

culture and environment are genes

@Nerthulas you mean like race?

Son of a gun the tag didn't work

until you understand that genes make culture and environment, you will never get anywhere

to really understand this chart you need to know how PCA works..... geneetic differences can be considered as an extremely high dimensional vector space. no way to visualize. principal component analysis breaks this down and projects it into 2 dimensions like a shadow. PCA1 is the most significant variation. PCA2 is the 2nd most significant variation that's orthogonal to the first. you cant compare scale between X and Y theyre different units. WE see here that african genetics are on a completely different level compared to all other human races on PC1, the most significant axis.

yes, race is a relatively arbitrary designation, you can draw races wide or small, specific or broad

@Str3tch, what makes genes?

hey, where did GENES come from?

East Asians have higher intelligence, Africans have higher height. Neither is superior to, or equal to the other.

I guess genes created the big bang.

Genes create environment, after all

@BabygottBach u <:kekboi:417880491182653450>

the environment and culture is the output of other ppl's genes

Where

did

the reality is that there is a continuum of related living organisms who differ in traits, and that we can draw circles around groups of organisms with some level of similarity

genes

genes can shape environment and environment shapes genes

FIRST

come from?

Are individuals with, for example, hereditary disease, indistinct in ability and behaviour from other individuals free of such disease? @BabygottBach

genes came from RNA

@Leaf, ofc not. How does this impact the discussion about genetic determinist narratives about history?

epigenetics won't make jamal a genius

actually you are on the discord of one of the foremost theorists of the relationship between RNA and DNA

currently

@Nerthulas, right. And where did RNA come from?

RNA came from more simple proteins

Where did they come from?

Yeah gene-culture coevolution is basically confirmed at this point. Lots of evidence for self-domestication in humans (the degree to which also differs between races btw)

they came from chemical elements

Ultimately, environment produced genes.

nurture IS nature

you can find simple protein anywhere in space

@BabygottBach RNA came from doing your mom doing your mom

yes...

The environment was here long before genes were.

<:dab:395562678153904128>

nature is nurture, yes

isn't nurture product or nature?

yes

ofc

chicken or egg

we're not talking about air temperature

So whoever was attributing primacy to genes in the gene environment relation has it completely backwards.

@BabygottBach it's entirely related, the relation is the display of the fact that genetic variations can exist within species that significantly and observable create vast disparities in their abilities and behaviours based on genetic predispositions

@that explains the massive and rapid shifts in history? absolutely not.

the man made environment, not the CO2 in the air from a belching volcano

Yes it does

It does exactly that

@BabygottBach genetic biochemistry is basically the same as machine learning you have experiment that works and some that fails

it doesn't change anything to understand environment came first, the point of the gene-environemnt relation model is to show enviroment changes genes changes environment

but genes can lead you to living next to an active volcano

No, it quite literally does not, unless you are proposing that genes of a population somehow shifts at breakneck pae.

ban volcanoes

or a place not suitable for agriculture

genes can lead u there too

How does it presume that? @BabygottBach

If you are a student of history, you would know of the rapid rises and falls of different cultures and civilizations.

Yes

And?

I'm really butthurt that we can't get catgirls without a revolutionary phenotype

it's not fair bros

@BabygottBach When did African civilization rise?

If genes account for these rapid changes, theen they would also need to change just as rapidly

@canadagamer9, multiple civilizations existed in Africa

@BabygottBach we are aware of it, and your ideology is contributing to the fall of ours

catgirls?

Well genes can shift an breakneck pace. Imagine killing off everyone above 6 foot each generation for 400 years. Now think what would happen if we did the same to criminals. Culture accelerates evolution.

@BabygottBach no they wouldn't need to change just as rapidly lmfao

@BabygottBach When did Bantu civilization rise?

that's a cat women

https://media3.giphy.com/media/ZvgVRGFNUdKRW/source.gif

the same or similar genes can be expressed differently in different environments

different concept

@BabygottBach minus egypt, and ethopia, name them

@canadagamer9, what about Mali?

The genetics and therefore the abilities and behaviours of the populations which compose various administrative units are determining factors in how those administrative units function, yes? @BabygottBach

Mali lol

Slave trader gang

We wuz imperialists n shieet

Songhai, Ashanti?

jesus

i want a glow in the dark woman

Slave trader gang is a lot of civilization

How can you call these "Empires"

@BabygottBach Mali's rise was sharp and short compared to China or Japan which persisted for thousands of years.

Not calling them empires

Civilizations

stop moving the goal post here

Same thing really

These are very tribalistic and poorly developed economic units which are exclusively unified by a common interest in slave trading

norgers

hey hey

Mali and Songhai were offshoots of the Ghana civilization

n-word <:monkaS:299267496668692493>

no n-word

same thing

How did they cobble together enough IQ to form Mali then?

Is this civilization or a business operation?

Also you're going to get banned for using the n word lol

Mali was a business operation?

that's a pretty big business then.

you are an uncultured scoundrel @BabygottBach. no racial slurs of that sort

Yes, they had a rudimentary form of political organisation and the impetus for its organisation was wealth generated by slave trading

@BabygottBach much the same way that african civilization exists today, by profiting from their interactions with a much more developed society

okay, blacks are too dumb to do anything with out the help of whitey, but the gamer word is banned.

namely Muslim society

Arab

@Str3tch bunch of people used the word that got me browned

@BabygottBach I didn't say they couldn't form "civilizations", I meant that IQ would affect the way their civilization works.

no, its' not that they are stupid and that's why they don't have civilzation, its the fact that they didn't have civilzation that made them lesser than they could have been if they had it for thousands of years. Evolution and selection is what makes us what we are

I feel discriminated against

"Whitey"

I love Africa.

I demand reparations

@Nerthulas, that quite literally accounts for all civilizations.

the W word

<:yay:638817157840502815>

you should sue the server @❀Rare Birb❀

More like Arabs

reeee

I BRING THE RAINS DOWN IN AFRICA

@BabygottBach they didn't have to work hard for there food basically

god, I love how you keep moving the goalpost, @Nerthulas

blessed*

https://www.bitchute.com/channel/thefascifist/

not all, there are at least seven independent hearths of agricultural development

blessed the rains

They've only ever successfully organized under the guidance and with the encouragement of other ethnic groups and only, exclusively for the sake of economic opportunism

I feel like this is getting very off track though

@Leaf, ar eyou saying that other ethnic groups other than African ones were guiding places like Songhai, Mali, etc?

subbed @Deleted User

@BabygottBach Arabs.

@BabygottBach yes, Arabs and Berbers

civilization:

@Deleted User - Thanks!

DOWN IN AFRICA

good song

a good friend of my @Deleted User

@Deleted User, would you consider an image of a European mud hut to be an argument as well?

yes <:CHAD:396569198404435969>

https://tenor.com/SNzp.gif

That's what your claim of civilization is. all throughout the world besides sub saharan africa has history of far greater things

The wild dogs cry out in the night
As they grow restless, longing for some solitary company
I know that I must do what's right
As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti
I seek to cure what's deep inside, frightened of this thing that I've become

@Leaf, because of Islam?

yes

@Deleted User, your claim was that Africans were incapable of doing anything other than warring with each other in little bantu tribes.

@HemRoy5 do you come from a land down unda?

if you want to look at it from a materialist perspective, then because of the slave trade

Now the goalposts seem to keep shifting.

https://youtu.be/XfR9iY5y94s

@esotericpazuzuism yes 🙂

https://tenor.com/view/straya-australia-day-australian-happy-australia-day-land-down-under-gif-10836686

@BabygottBach nope did not say that, you speak of logical fallicies, but you seem to use a straw man a lot

@Nerthulas, lots of civilizations were founded along trade routes. So what?

being capable of living in civilization, however poorly, and being capable of originating civilization are not the same thing

that was in answer to you question: "because of Islam"

Buying bread from a man in Brussels
He was six-foot-four and full of muscles
I said, "do you speak-a my language?"
He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich

Was it an Arab running Mali?

What are you idiots arguing?

was Mansa Musa an Arab?

<:dab:395562678153904128>

no, he wasn't lol

happy australia day

I'll settle for cultural development, but where are the genes here?

but that's @Leaf 's conversation

bf above

<#634548436280016906> 👈🏻

Mansu Musa was a warlord though

What happened to the genes that made Africans incapable of running their own civilizations?

Warlords are crucial to civilizations.

your missing the points

#notallcivilizations

all of them

It seems like you've shifted position away from genetic determinism to cultural determinism.

modern day Congo is more wealthy than 14th century Mali

Mali was prosperous under Mansa Musu due to trade with arabs, Mali exported huge amounts of gold.

A lot of places today would be wealthier than any place in the 14th century.

I don't know what your conception of "genetic determinism" is

@BabygottBach that was not a very orderly society. It got wealthy do to the wealth of African natural resources. Take Europe and East Asia, very natural resource dry. They used intelligence to make valuables.

@fuguer? So? There are such things as trading civilizations.

https://tenor.com/view/apu-facts-hammer-gif-13434375

JFG vs bach

<:steflol:561214382181318656>

African might be the most resource rich continent on the planet.

I don't consider myself a genetic determinist, I consider myself someone who acknowledges that behavior has a genetic component and that that is significant to historical development of various people groups

Russia and China know this already and so does the rest of the world @Hector

Behavior is genetic

Autism

You gave a genetic determinist explanation for current day Africa's lack of development relatively.

i dont consider myself

@BabygottBach the genes, get selected for over thousands of years, when you have abundance, like africa does, you don't need to organize to survive, you won't select for the genes that benefit organizational structures. how many regions had to deal with an ice age? did that impact africa like the rest of the world?

Also, the Khans were many times richer.

built by the richest people in the world at the time in Mali.

i'm a statistician

that makes me racist

not a 'determinist' explanation, I say that that is part of the reason

obviously the reality is complicated

I could tear that down with a single sledge hammer over the course of a few weeks

Correct

despite only 13%

@fuguer, try building using sand.

<:dab:395562678153904128>

africans suffer from seemingly permanent high time preference, both from biological and culturual influences

commit 50%

African genes survive in Africa

<:dab:395562678153904128>

but human behavior plays a role in economy of modern nations

So what

clearly

1350

and genes play a role in human behavior

<:JFGOD:439598359628611604>

we build most of our skyscrapers from sand.

why didn't they acquire a better building material than sand?

@Deleted User, show me what your big white IQ can come up with using sand as a building material.

They are all of it

thats not sand

mud