and 6.2 and 6.3 perhaps

afaik there is no posting of the survey

How about they just don't go out and get drunk around a bunch of guys they don't know?
Any personal responsibility there?

Going out and getting drunk is a choice.

With a consequence all of society knows about.

being drunk? puking?

@JadenFrostwolf Yes people should consider that this stuff happens and should temper the actions accordingly, that doesn't excuse rape.

Oh come on, I don't think *anyone* says what I just did to "excuse" rape, and to try to say that I was doing so is disingenuous.

"None of the five measures of substance use since entering college were statistically
associated with being a victim of forced sexual assault during college."

hard to believe, but it's there

@JadenFrostwolf Sounds a lot like that since no one was having a conversation about rape prevention and you chimed in with what sounds like victim blaming

how would i know the accuracy of the study if i don't know the survey questions?

Not victim blaming, just people being responsible.

"the large majority of victims of sexual assault are victimized by men they know and
trust, rather than strangers. " <- from the study

yeah the most significant factor was being in a relationship with some form of physical/verbal/mental abuser

True, I shouldn't have said 'they don't know' because I remember learning about that in class, but my point about being weary still stands.

so... back to prohibition?

Yeah, *totally* what I'm advocating...

@JadenFrostwolf I guess what i mean is it sounds like you are saying that women should accept rape as a fact of life. Idk how i feel about a statement like that. It is a fact of life but we definitely shouldn't accept it

I think the reason that the "take responsibility" argument exists and is so controversial is partly due to the fact that going and getting drunk is NOT significant in the sexual assault increases occurring on college campuses

well if you can't get drunk around people you know and trust, why not just outlaw alcohol altogether... and yes i'm being sarcastic.

ie. most drunk girls dont call rape, its very low

Can you stop building up strawmen? I never said nor meant "it's a fact of life", especially one that can't be prevented or anything. I'm just saying that there is a level of awareness and critical thinking you should apply before being exposed to this kinds of situations in the first place.

As with just about any other situation based on surroundings.

Then why was the discussion earlier about alcohol if it wasn't a factor?

@JadenFrostwolf I never said what you are saying, i never constructed a strawman. I am simply telling you what i am reading from your comment. That is all.

@JadenFrostwolf If that is all you meant, i agree.

see THATS a good question, why do both sides center around alcohol/parties, when its clearly an abusive relationship thing

Actually we were just discussing the meaning of a question related to alcohol

@pukeblood, I haven't reviewed this study in a long time. Are you talking about the CSA study?

yeah

Mkay, and to be honest, there were so many messages I skimmed through them and didn't read them in-depth. I didn't know what was already discussed and such.

Okay, all we were discussing was whether drunkenness was something that barred consent according to the study

according to WHO it does, but if substance use isnt significantly associated with an increase, then most people attending parties/using substances have an understanding about drunk sex and it not being so black and white as the louder, more vindictive claimants of sexual assault make it out to be

Nah, I know there are people that full-on victim blame, and I know it can seem like that is what I was saying. Sorry for the misunderstanding, since again, all I was saying was that there to essentially just be cautious and think about the future/what could happen. Obviously, this doesn't apply if things go or events take place which you did not originally account for.

@pukebood WHO source?

world health org

i know, i'm asking for where to look specifically

http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/violence/global_campaign/en/chap6.pdf

Yeah, there is that too: a lot of the time I hear feminists going on about the "1 in 5" statistic, they also usually drum up alcohol and parties. I think maybe that is why I jumped into that topic, since it is the one that is usually being discussed on this issue, on both sides.

@JadenFrostwolf That CSA study is the source of the 1 in 5 stat

"It may also occur when the
person aggressed is unable to give consent – for
instance, while drunk, drugged, asleep or mentally
incapable of understanding the situation."

Yeah.

considering the following qualifiers, you need to be *pretty* drunk

but they dont extrapolate on that, which has probably caused some issue

@pukeblood, i interpret that to mean that alcohol can negat consent, which i agree with. You don't think that it means it must right? That is to say that being drunk means you can't consent full stop.

Degree and context matter

Yeah. There's a difference between having a couple drinks or smoking some pot, and being five bottles in and doing a much harder substance.

And even then id hesitate to call consensual sex with a long term boyfriend with whom you do hard drugs assault

I dont see how I couldve been interpreted as 1 drink = no agency

@pukeblood "according to WHO it does"

yeah their definition is right there lmao

all it says is "while drunk"

it CAN be interpreted that way, thats a problem

yes, so our discussion was over whether context and degree mattered. My statement was meant to be read as more or less 1 drink = no agency

"Drunk" means different things to different people, basically.

also from WHO; http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/terminology/who_lexicon/en/
"Intoxication is highly dependent on the type and dose of drug and is influenced by an individual's level of tolerance and other factors. Frequently, a drug is taken in order to achieve a desired degree of intoxication. The behavioural expression of a given level of intoxication is strongly influenced by cultural and personal expectations about the effects of the drug."

obviously these cases need to be solved uniquely, regarding the drinking ones, meanwhile a majority of the problem stems from relationship abuse and that doesnt seem to have come up in all the activism surrounding rape culture

@pukeblood, in my experience its a major topic of discussion amongst people informed on the topic

we trivialize drunk sex because its socially acceptable, even according to the CSA study, but I dont think we trivialize relationship abuse

Even less so when it comes to men. I know that is kind of out-of-nowhere, but even going off of that study, I don't think it's a leap in logic to assume that a lot of male victims of abuse don't report what is happening to them.

Laci Green for example, talks about this a bunch

Aside from the studies, for the sake of clarity, my only real "experience" with these kinds of issues is what I leaned while attending some lower-level criminal justice and law enforcement classes.

good, it SHOULD come up, we SHOULDNT ruin mens careers/futures for going to parties and having sex with culturally-defined consenting adults

i mean

one of my roomates had this whistle blown at him

the solution is to just

go to the police

so I get med

@pukeblood my best friend was falsely accused to.

On a *somewhat* related topic, my friend who is probably as left as one can be without going full-on "SJW" was called a racist recently.

extreme-left is racism, how left are they?

@JadenFrostwolf Rascism seems to be an ill-defined and poorly understood term these days. I went to weird high school with a lot of poor black kids (basically the school was situated such that it drew a middle class white population and poor black population

I would say "typical college indoctrinate" level, but not quite that far?

My friends said i was being rascist when i said the black kids were the kids who did all the fighting.

Facts ain't rascist yo

ooo but "hate facts" are

What he essentially said was that the children of Chinese immigrants might have a hard time adjusting to our culture.

That's it.

yeah ive seen people say "I like asian women" referring to dating preference, be called racist

stupid racist penis

Hey man, keep your holocaust cock away from us

Genocide by sexual preference ain't cool

tell that to every species on the planet

why wont that horse fuck that dolphin

god damn ignorant

Anyway, to bring the original topic back, I think abuse and domestic violence are issues that aren't specific to college campuses. People being victims of abuse and not wanting to or not being able to leave their abuser is something that happens everywhere, and this is definitely something that can be and should be brought up.

I forget what the study said, if it was more or less than what takes place outside of those colleges.

hows this for victim blaming, the study definitely mentions an increase, on-par with being in abusive relationship, stemming from being abused before college

so victims tend to get victimized

there are so many things that we think deserve justice that, I believe, come from a deep-seated lack of mental health examination

that goes for men who abuse and women who let themselves be abused, vice versa, etc.

Remember those anti trump text messages from the Mueller investigation? Welp they’re gone https://twitter.com/sharylattkisson/status/955156292599013376

Welp

It’s really sad that I’m able to say I’m not surprised.

Neither am I considering the FBI hide they had snipers surrounding Bundy’s ranch recently

On a totally unrelated note, I enjoyed the close-up of Timcat in yesterday's video. 😺

imcat

his name should be Beenie

that makes sense