Yeah, *totally* what I'm advocating...

@JadenFrostwolf I guess what i mean is it sounds like you are saying that women should accept rape as a fact of life. Idk how i feel about a statement like that. It is a fact of life but we definitely shouldn't accept it

I think the reason that the "take responsibility" argument exists and is so controversial is partly due to the fact that going and getting drunk is NOT significant in the sexual assault increases occurring on college campuses

well if you can't get drunk around people you know and trust, why not just outlaw alcohol altogether... and yes i'm being sarcastic.

ie. most drunk girls dont call rape, its very low

Can you stop building up strawmen? I never said nor meant "it's a fact of life", especially one that can't be prevented or anything. I'm just saying that there is a level of awareness and critical thinking you should apply before being exposed to this kinds of situations in the first place.

As with just about any other situation based on surroundings.

Then why was the discussion earlier about alcohol if it wasn't a factor?

@JadenFrostwolf I never said what you are saying, i never constructed a strawman. I am simply telling you what i am reading from your comment. That is all.

@JadenFrostwolf If that is all you meant, i agree.

see THATS a good question, why do both sides center around alcohol/parties, when its clearly an abusive relationship thing

Actually we were just discussing the meaning of a question related to alcohol

@pukeblood, I haven't reviewed this study in a long time. Are you talking about the CSA study?

yeah

Mkay, and to be honest, there were so many messages I skimmed through them and didn't read them in-depth. I didn't know what was already discussed and such.

Okay, all we were discussing was whether drunkenness was something that barred consent according to the study

according to WHO it does, but if substance use isnt significantly associated with an increase, then most people attending parties/using substances have an understanding about drunk sex and it not being so black and white as the louder, more vindictive claimants of sexual assault make it out to be

Nah, I know there are people that full-on victim blame, and I know it can seem like that is what I was saying. Sorry for the misunderstanding, since again, all I was saying was that there to essentially just be cautious and think about the future/what could happen. Obviously, this doesn't apply if things go or events take place which you did not originally account for.

@pukebood WHO source?

world health org

i know, i'm asking for where to look specifically

http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/violence/global_campaign/en/chap6.pdf

Yeah, there is that too: a lot of the time I hear feminists going on about the "1 in 5" statistic, they also usually drum up alcohol and parties. I think maybe that is why I jumped into that topic, since it is the one that is usually being discussed on this issue, on both sides.

@JadenFrostwolf That CSA study is the source of the 1 in 5 stat

"It may also occur when the
person aggressed is unable to give consent – for
instance, while drunk, drugged, asleep or mentally
incapable of understanding the situation."

Yeah.

considering the following qualifiers, you need to be *pretty* drunk

but they dont extrapolate on that, which has probably caused some issue

@pukeblood, i interpret that to mean that alcohol can negat consent, which i agree with. You don't think that it means it must right? That is to say that being drunk means you can't consent full stop.

Degree and context matter

Yeah. There's a difference between having a couple drinks or smoking some pot, and being five bottles in and doing a much harder substance.

And even then id hesitate to call consensual sex with a long term boyfriend with whom you do hard drugs assault

I dont see how I couldve been interpreted as 1 drink = no agency

@pukeblood "according to WHO it does"

yeah their definition is right there lmao

all it says is "while drunk"

it CAN be interpreted that way, thats a problem

yes, so our discussion was over whether context and degree mattered. My statement was meant to be read as more or less 1 drink = no agency

"Drunk" means different things to different people, basically.

also from WHO; http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/terminology/who_lexicon/en/
"Intoxication is highly dependent on the type and dose of drug and is influenced by an individual's level of tolerance and other factors. Frequently, a drug is taken in order to achieve a desired degree of intoxication. The behavioural expression of a given level of intoxication is strongly influenced by cultural and personal expectations about the effects of the drug."

obviously these cases need to be solved uniquely, regarding the drinking ones, meanwhile a majority of the problem stems from relationship abuse and that doesnt seem to have come up in all the activism surrounding rape culture