>an entire criminal organization

sure

i mean, dictators run whole countries

No they don't. They have entire organizations underneath them that keep things running

Fucking Stalin wasn't going to show up to nick you for jaywalking

yeah, and? one person runs it, people follow that person

just like my dad is the head and my mom follows, and they force their will on me

Right, and the authority limits the space controlled

they can easily come after me if i leave

Yes, and 2 people is not a military

2 people vs 1 person? why not.

1 person can be as effect as a whole army.

how many people are needed to be a military?

personally, i think the only thing separating your usual family, and the state, is just a matter of scale.

so then what is the min amount to be called a state

>one person can be an entire professional organization

There's more to it than scale, but scale is a large part of it

thats fine, why are you not defining scale then. outside nebulous terms. just go "military is at least 100 people" or something like that.

"goverment needs at least 20 people"

Because it's not a flat number, it's a style of organization

A government isn't just 50 dads

so then a family unit could be a state, but is not always.

No, a family unit on its own could not be a state

A family unit could become head of a state

Could occupy the positions within a state

if i am on an island, with just me and my family, are they not the state?

they "own" the whole island

i was just born there

They only own it by virtue of you willingly following them. If you decided not to, you'd be fucked

i pointed the answer of this issue out earlier

If you decide tomorrow not to pay taxes you'll get fucked

Group of people is a family,
Group of families is a community,
Group of communities is a town,
Group of towns is a country,
A countries leaders is called a state?

is that not different that now?

so then they are the state if they are willing to use force. and the government can become not a state if they don't use force?

if i stop paying taxes, and "the state" goes "well fuck.... okay" and thats it. are they still "the state"

No, if a bully beats you up, he is not the state

if i tell my dad on this island "i'm not giving you half the food i personally picked today" and he beats me up. why is he not the state?

Because you are both ultimately sovereign. His ability to control you only extends so far as he can beat you and you don't cause him sufficient harm

is that not true of the state?

Because words have definitions and 'state' is not just 'person or people who tell me what to do'

You cannot sufficiently harm a state

why not?

You on your own with a big stick are not going to dismantle social organization

so then the state is at least 2 people.

or the state is just an entity too large for me to take on solo and win against?

or well, at least part of it

Both because it extends beyond "he beat me up" and because it moves well beyond the scale you can feasibly deal with

As the state has a monopoly on "legitimate" force

@Dr.Wol that like the cells , organs, body thinngy I learned in biology

so then, if my family is big enough on this island. like 10 people, and everyone follows the hierarchy, dad>mom> oldest to youngest, its possible they become the state to me.

pretty much contro

if i, personally, am not strong enough to take on say, my dad and two oldest brothers who are his "police"

No, they dont

They don't fill the total roles a state does, they cannot defend your island against an outside force and so are subject to the whims of that force

They cannot even defend against you alone if you decide to murder everyone in their sleep

who says they can't?

This is literally "communism is anyone sharing" all over again

is cuba not a state? because it cannot defend its country against the us

what roles does the state have to perform?

Sorry, Cuba didn't defend against the US?

not without help

1 MOAB and its basically toast

They still defended against the US

you mean fight a losing battle?

so can my brother and dad against an invader

i mean, the state cannot defend against me killing everyone in their sleep. their only hope is that everyone is not asleep at once and i'm not too quick

sure, at US level its unlikely, but there are way smaller states than US where you could do some serious damage overnight

We've now moved into reductio ad absurdum

For the nth time

I think I'm done here

we have a few definitions in the dictionary of "the state" this one sounds the most broad:
"a body of persons constituting a special class in a society"

Society: "a community, nation, or broad grouping of people having common traditions, institutions, and collective activities and interests"

now are just down to deciding how many people are needed to meet the bare minimum to be called "a community" I'd say the absolute min is 4. maybe 5. I would also say that as soon as there is someone who is part of the leadership class, which can be 1 person, and an enforcer class, which can also be 1 person, also the same person as the leadership class, you have " a state": A class ruling over your society.

whether you want to call that class "the state" seems to depend entirely on if you like them or not.

https://twitter.com/newscientist/status/1032300120795176960?s=20

confirmed: Parrots are conservatives AKA nazis AKA alt-right

murder all the parrots

progressive thinking comrade

Distribute the walnuts

need to seize those walnuts, there are staving people who need them and those parrots look healthy.

@Grenade123, I'll stave you if you touch my parrot

You look healthy, @Grenade123

I like the test where they make a monkey do a task and give it a nut(bad reward) and its happy to keep doing the task for more, and then they make it watch another monkey do a task and get given a grape(good reward), then they make the first monkey do it again, and still give it a nut. It no longer is happy with a nut after seeing the second one get a grape and throws a temper tantrum

monkey threw that nut right back

would rather starve then get some sh*tty nut

https://youtu.be/v_BVxqkcXCs

spain

Guys is Trump realy toast now ?

Surely this is the end of Donald Trump

french toast

with marmalade

🙃

Well its going to be interesting

I think the way the media were obsessed with him is working against them now

Because its hard to take ot serious after all the previous bulshit

I mean this is not the first time they get really excited for some reveal only for it to be just, not worth the excitement.

Like the tax return reveal, Eric's meeting with a russian representative.

well just lay out the context of this "incident"

what has Trump done?

I kind of agree with Scott Adams' assessment

^

I was referring to zutt's comment about how their obession became their detriment