and how you are quantifying it

I mean gay couples are still subject to the same kinds of laws as hereosexual couples in some states

so the same gynocentric laws do apply

If a man signs a form saying he is the submissive one, he can gain those said resources in divorce court

On the other hand, they are not cohabitating with women. So they are somewhat denying women of resources

I think it depends on their motive

If its out of codependence then no

If its a personal choice where they define that as MGTOW. Then it is an act of MGTOW to them

not personally

I see it as a shaming tactic

Women by default will shame men because they cannot see outside the self

Sounds like a typical American definition... It's mgtow if you want it to be... Regardless of your actions?

They need the co-dependence. It's manufactured power

As for gay cohabitation, it is an alternative. Same could be said for trans too

But it also depends on legal definitions

Meh

@Artemis There is yet no definition of MGTOW as it is a loose Movement. The problem with cohabitation only comes to play if you find yourself restricted in fulfilling your needs within your living space. E.g. women decorating the shit out of your apartment. There is margin between these things. Roommates with shared living spaces for example.

Same as social norms in particular contexts

But MGTOW overall is going your own way

in the practical sense, its up to the individual to realise that

Stoicism and stoic principles and the way of the warrior do have some core tenets of mgtow

Well her guilt is also societal guilt too

I don't see women as separate from the collective identity

but the programming is designed to create guilt

a way to measure it would be based off the objectives

law - politics - culture - norms

yes

monk mode I'd say yes

same as purple pill ghosting

But if you are actually completely open and honest to the woman, why shouldn't it work? @Mysteriedingens

@Denno are you a woman?

im trans

Male to female?

yes

@Artemis I dont say that cohabitation with women doesn't work if you keep your boundaries. I just assume it would not be an option for longterm (as relationships in general). Enjoy being with her as long as she is nice, after that throw her out and look the fuck out for keeping your ressources.

but I will keep my male bits

Women tend to rewrite history if they feel not served as they desire

they are a wild card

can't be quantified as much

only observed

@Denno if you don't mind me asking, why are you keeping them?

my sovereignty

and for medical reasons

@Artemis There are these slow indicators showing when a woman tries to take over your living space. Leaving toothbrush, Makeup, clothing. keep it restricted only let her take things to your place to certain extend. Dont let her make it look like she lives there. As long as this is the case, nobody can take away your things

@Mysteriedingens Seems like a very prosaic way to look at it. Du scheinst den Teufel an die Wand zu malen.

brb

I have work

Big attachment to your material things? @Mysteriedingens

See you Nadia

@The Tradesman I'll be back in 30 mins

no, i live minimalism cause ive grown up with a slightly hoarding father and hated it

But the things i have, i defend and not let anyone take away, cause they symbolize who i am and my hobbys. Ich lasse den Teufel nicht zwischen meine Wände :-p

@Denno I'll try to stay on.

@Flushtater with answering the question I had? Yes, thank you :)

Lol. @Mysteriedingens pretty sure women tend to not mean any harm when using your stuff. And if one doesn't like it, why not just tell them. Könnte so einfach sein

By the way - are there any women in this group? Can they even be mgtow?

@Artemis no there isn’t any

@Artemis You may did not understand i dont have a problem with others using my stuff. Furthermore im happy if someone is interested in the same things. It seems that to me you didnt yet experience a woman trying to shape your apartment into hers by replacing things. Isses aber nicht.

Or forbidding you certain things because it takes away attention from them

Good morning everyone

@A-B rebel Oh. And can they potentially be mgtow?

MGTOW is a male Movement - it is included in the name.

@Mysteriedingens lol. You got a point there, haven't experienced that.
But isn't that a general human thing? I would say men tend to do that aswell.
Keine Ahnung, wie der Text weitergeht 😂

Morning everyone!

Okay. I thought maybe it would be like feminism including males.

Morning

@Artemis for how long you are researching mgtow?

@Artemis If you look at the common marriage, many men are restricted to their "manspace" in the garage with all their tools and shit. And they only have that to repair stuff in the house. I dont know any profound male who likes this overly exaggerated decorative bullshit women tend to place around your place to appear friendly

About two days @Kazemaru

@Artemis to understand mgtow takes several weeks. Watch Sandman and HHH videos from the beggining. Also, read the comments. It will help

@Artemis Oh, you are a MGTOW-apprentice? To understand that shit takes a long time and dedication - and often a trigger.

@Mysteriedingens well, compromises should probably be done on both sides. And also there may be someone out there that is compatible with what you like on your house if it matters so much to you. The easy way out ( =giving up) ain't always the best one, just sayin'

@Artemis MGTOW is not giving up.

It is seeing yourself as the prize rather than the player in the game and acting like it aswell as working your value up.

I agree that monogamy coupled with irrational expectations is doomed from the start though that doesn't mean that it cannot work with certain twists here and there

Monogamy doesnt work without the fear of punishment. I advice you to try it, after that come back and approve all points mentioned.

a relationship cant be balanced, one is in the dominant position. And if you feel like you are equal, then she is in power.

@Kazemaru not sure yet if I will spend that much time on this topic. I was just curious since I agreed with a few points and wanted to hear what it's all about

@Artemis be patience. You will learn with time

@Flushtater yea it's obvious that security is an illusion. So are most of the concepts and perceived "realities", especially in the West. But that is not just something women fall for

@Artemis Women are a victim of this system aswell because of the artificial independency. I mean they are more unhappy than ever. They hate working, they hate pressure. Yet they are also indoctrinated by it. MGTOW is not defeaterism but getting the most out your time and resources. And you may yet didnt find a woman who got to be your cryptonite and if you are lucky you never will. But if you will, that bitch is gonna try to cut your balls off

Who says a relationship has to be equal anyway? What's wrong with one being more dominant? @Mysteriedingens

Nothing

But it is draining energy if it doesn come natural to the relationship dynamics (that change any time if another male appears in her life)

and if you are the passive part, you will get very hurt when she finds a better option, which they all wanna do

Women dont want to be submissive in a relationship dynamics, they dont cook anymore, they dont clean anymore, they want to decide things, they want entertainment, they want attention... It is either really taxing to be dominant or you are too passive

@Flushtater but what are women supposed to do about the biological need for protection? Yea, they have it. Doesn't mean she is automatically incapable of loving you and dedicating herself entirely and loyaly to you or whatever

If women truly were like that, societies wouldn't have needed to restrict women.

Her self interest and solipsism is what influences their indifference towards men and their spouses.

@Artemis she may love you for the honey moon phase, but other than that a woman doesnt love you. The last part is a dream of yours, cause you are hoping to find a NAWALT. It is a false dream.. Get it out of your system

Not really the want for protection.

She doesn't love in the honey moon phase Lol.

@Mysteriedingens some still do. Maybe not many where you currently are. But they do exist

Okay, what the fuck is this timeout bullshit?

@Artemis Tell me where the place is.

Are there Moslems here?

Some does not mean a large portion.

Some simply means that exceptions exist but not in large numbers.

@Artemis there's men from everywhere in here

@Mysteriedingens it is not a dream of mine. I am not gay.