@NITRODUBS Communist regimes were run by bad people, but there are some merits to socialist policies. No one here is defending literal bolsheviks.

Capitalism is so much more moral and superior in nearly every way..

@Jacob I'm definitely reconsidering some of my preconceptions, but I also worry that part of what made Europe, and now us so soft and vulnerable is the kind of mentality created by the welfare state...

Ehhh that’s where I have to disagree. Valuing personal profit over the success of your community isn’t very moral

Communism and international capitalism are both pretty bad

@Wilhelm Look who's financing the left. It isn't hippies living in eco-villages....

One of my earliest realizations that jolted me this way was the realization that we couldn’t have certain nice left things (like single payer healthcare and functioning public infrastructure) since so much of our money is going to fund the third world daycare state.

Both communism and capitalism are immoral. Whatever precedes the -ism is implicitly what's considered most important. As a nationalist, I can be neither a capitalist nor a communist, because as the word "nationalist" implies, what's most important to me, beyond the more specific context of my kith and kin, is my nation.

at least international capitalism has lifted the masses out of extreme poverty. ideal? no, but even severely flawed capitalism is better than communism

If you succeed in Capitalism everyone around you also gets the benefit of you spending your extra money.

@ophiuchus Exactly. I wish someone would run on the platform of "universal healthcare / no immigration" I bet they'd make a big splash.

@Bjorn - MD Our ancestors went thousands of years living in small communities where they helped each other out. They were always, to some extent, socialistic, and it worked. What happened is the pursuit of money took over.

I definitely would want social safety nets for the less fortunate. My mom is a widow, I know how it feels to be *that* burden, or what’s seen as a burden under capitalism, when it is entirely bad luck and misfortune. People shouldn’t die or suffer because of bad luck under a functioning society

@Wilhelm Capitalism also makes the internally consistent, purely-profit driven argument: pave every forest, import 60 million somalis and build 60,000 wal-marts for them to work in. GDP goes up!

I was always hard right or libertarian since I didn't want to give money to people who hated me via welfare. In a white country I'd be ok with a mixed market that is a happy medium between socialism and capitalism.

having come down the libertarian-to-identitarian pipline, i'd be much more comfortable paying taxes for welfare for the actually needy in the ethnostate than what we're paying taxes for now

Mixed economy best economy. Private property, private ownership of the majority of corporations, but a system in place to protect our most vulnerable and ensure the wellbeing of our people in addition.

@NITRODUBS That is what families, churches and other groups are for.

International capitalism did not lift the masses out of poverty. Rapid development happened largely through government investment, and the quality of life of the masses did not improve until labor movements demanded it.

@ophiuchus this tbh

I feel like if you have much of any socialism it will every grow until you pretty much have Communism.

“Ideally,” the state and the people are a family, metaphorically.

Ironically, for as much as the Boers are touted about as paragons of capitalistic development, if you actually look at how their economy, and particularly public services were structured, it was basically lower-case "n," lower-case "s" national socialism.

I have objections to most social policies in this country now because my money is going to fund people who actively hate me because I am a white man and who would literally never do the same were I in their position.

@Wilhelm capitalism undermines the church and the family.

Why strive to have a family or children when you could have a nice car, or a lavish life of sexual freedom and luxuries? Why have religion when you have all the money and the power to do whatever you please, like a god?

Capitalism will monetize the destruction of morality. That’s why things are how they are now. That’s why MTV exists, why gay weddings exist, why pornography exists.

And capitalism in no way, will ever reward dignified ethics

@Wilhelm That's like saying if you have any bit of capitalism it will grow into corporate tyranny

Some may choose that life but they will find that it is meaningless and will have to except that they must have morals to live a happy life

Gays, and Trannies and (((empowered))) women and peacocking brown males are ideal consumers. Pozz, anti-white world is FOR international, left-corporate capitalism

I believe in the right to work yourself into whatever luxury you wish for, but I however, do not believe humans are entitled to destroy nature or values to achieve those luxuries

Even if you look at Sweden, and I don't see what they have, or even what they had in the mid-70s as an ideal model, they had some of the highest taxation in the world to fund all of their programs, but they also had perpetually balanced budgets, and by virtue of the fact that everyone in the country was basically the equivalent of, at least, a fourth-cousin, they felt guilty about taking advantage of welfare, and so largely didn't.

Communism ignores vital realities that are important for personal happiness, penalizes innovation and the drive to work towards a better station, and inherently begets eternal revolution. Capitalism, in an unfettered sense, leads to a worship of greed, *avaritia gratia avaritis,* and leads people to value profit over the wellbeing of the state.

@NITRODUBS at what point is it destruction? Most companies either do voluntarily, or are forced by the state to become net-zero in waste.

I’m about to finish a degree in finance, believe me, these people are not our friends.

Could we talk this out on the general voice.

maybe for a few minutes

I'm gonna have stuff to do later

anyone else want to hop in?

@NITRODUBS Could you join I want to understand your view

Long story short, though, there are a lot of ideas that I'm willing to entertain, and even test on a local basis, and I think that that can be sustained, so long as we retain radically free speech laws, are armed to the teeth, and have private education, albeit possibly with vouchers, so that access is sufficiently widespread so as to be electorally feasible.

I’ll hop in for a little bit