Message from @3v6en8
Discord ID: 630828113399382026
So which were class traitors, the nobles who wanted to give more power to the king, or give more power to the regional assemblies
Like if you're a slave, and you fight for the maintenance of slavery, you're a class traitor against the enslaved classes
Here’s a different question- who in the French Revolution was NOT a class traitor
In the same way if you're a noble fighting for an end to feudal and semi-feudal conceptions of property and government, you are harming the class you're a part of
What if they were doing that because they felt it was their best chance to maintain power?
@Platinum Spark Nobles supporting the maintenance of the aristocracy, and business owners, merchants, and non-noble land owners trying to destroy the aristocracy and replace it with some type of democratic process
It’s just the whole French Revolution was WAY more complex than you’re making it out to be
Sure
Really complex
You can become a class traitor with the expectation that you'll be rewarded
everyone wanted power
Is being a class traitor a problem?
The maintainence of the aristocracy- does trying to give more power to the king count as maintainence of the aristocracy?
Not necessarily
I think bourgeois class traitors like Engels are pretty neat
The merchants and business owners were not trying to destroy the aristocracy, they were trying to buy into it
^
*new money*
They were staunch defenders of the aristocracy in many cases
Yeah; and they were largely richer than the aristocracy
Because they controlled like, shipping and commercial enterprises, rather than the agriculture that used to make money 200 years prior
Then when things erupted into revolutionary violence, why did the vast majority of merchants and business owners support the establishment of the democratic republic? @Platinum Spark
Anyone interested in getting into it, check out Revolutions by Mike Duncan
@fuck12moredeadcops when violence first erupted? No
They did not
The first violence was grain riots
But they didn't resist things like the National Constituent Assembly abolishing what was left of feudalism in the country
GG @fuck12moredeadcops, you just advanced to level 4!
Known as the day of the tiles
That was way way way later you’re talking about
You’ve got to go back at least to the calling of the Estates General
It’s like talking about the American Revolution and fast forwarding to writing the constitution
It was before the Declaration of the Rights of Man or the drafting of the first constitution, it is much more like talking about the American Revolution and beginning with the Declaration of Independence.
No not at all
You’re missing the entire setup
And the start of the violence
Why does the set-up and beginning of violence matter if I'm trying to illustrate that the bourgeois (in the Marxist sense) classes did not resist the abolition of feudalism?
Because the bourgeoise DID resist the abolition of feudalism
People wanted food, govt inefficient, people angry about taxes, bourgeois are lumpt with 3rd estate, 3rd estate tennis court, afterwards violence and protests
You’re just skipping the part when they did