?

The elites understand that there is an order in nature that simply "is"

Not should be

The conviction that hierarchy of things must exist

That superior things have to be really superior, and inferior really inferior

And that it is their natural order

Aristocratic forms of government are established in obediance of this sacred principle

So what matters is hierarchy

?

Economy, as merely a form of exchange, therefore is absolutely subjected to *qualitative* relationis, which are personal

Economy as a quantitative form of exhange, therefore cannot supress and replace a qualitative organization, which is abstractly and theoretically, the state itself

Aristocratic state is nothing else but it's elite and of course, the religion

Aristocratic state is therefore this *quality* itself

What makes something superior to something else rather than, say, different

"we the people" is just a bushwacking drivel

Quite frankly spoken, the superior in terms of these castes, is essentially a personal quality

valor, bravery, intelligence, etc

In most aristocratic societies, the elites were extremely suspicio of presence of such qualities among low castes

Because statistically, they were usually right

which is why the idea of aristocracy just drives the current masses mad with rage.

Not necessarily

I may have made too large a claim. Many are driven mad, not all.

Consider Roman Republic. It's borders were essentially the city of Rome. It was easy for a slave to escape to his freedom

But few chose to do so

People aren't at war all the time

Because the relative safety and comfort of the life of servitued in a house of a Roman noble man was in many ways his comfort zone

It seems to be a natural virtue in some to admire and want to emulate superiors, rather than trash them. This virtue has been undermined today, but is not absent totally.

valor and bravery are synonymous

Feudal peasants who fight for their barons were plenty brave

Intelligence is left

Most of the slave rebellions in Roman era were started by slave who worked in agriculture, since their life was harder

So they display bravery

For many peasants, to leave their lands and actually go to war was a privillege already great enough

Again, not because things "should be that way' but because that was the reality of those times

it was part of verbal contacts

All of the land was divided among knights and noble men, and nowhere could you just "travel" and go just like that

Everyone had his purpose specifically designed for him since the day he was born

So if I'm understanding you, what is important is hierarchy and its arrangement according to intelligence?

The important thing to understand today is that we cannot possibly achieve something like that

Since there are no essential values today from which to begin, no reference points

feudalism of Europe came about well after a market system with different values than those needed for feudalism to work

We can theoretically only imagine some sort of a new fall of current civilization to imagine a new sort of order arising in it's place, but such scenarios are largely today thought to be apocalyptic

I'm sorry I didn't realize you weren't talking to me

nevermind then

@༺པརབྱར།བསངཇ༻ NRx is at the same time right and wrong. Their diagnosis is good, their suggested cure won't work

People cannot establish an order today that isn't based on the values that are *real* today

*Realistically* economic performance is what matters today. If for example we switched current system for some sort of let's say, statism, like Fascism for example

The greatest value would be loyalty to the state

Which is again, certainly better value than economic performance

But that value would condition everything else

why is it better

Let's say you wanted to create some sort of a 5 year plan, or some project to allocate resource

You would allocate them according to personal loyalty to the state, not merit

Or I guess why is loyalty to the state the most important thing

No, i dont think one-party state is the perfect solution, far from it

it's just better than plutocracy

whatever the state is

why is loyalty to it the most important thing

Of course, If we are not speaking of a dictatorship of the proletariat which is a whole different story

It allows for a dose of transcedence from a personal viewpoint

Which again dillutes individualism and to it immanent deviations

"It allows for a dose of transcedence from a personal viewpoint"

What does this mean to you

it could mean a few things

And it makes possible to create a new outlook which won't cater only to needs of trade and commercial growth, since power is established not in economical centers, but in centers of military, social authority

"What does this mean to you
it could mean a few things" Individual is more soberly aware that he isn't the most important thing, simply put

So the most important thing isn't the individual, it's the state?

Look

I don't think you understand

The state itself doesn't really matter

People can live without a state

In complete state of Anarchy

That's why I'm asking you pointed questions

but in such a state, "natural order" affirmst itself more easily and directly

Without asserting anything

However, since through many generations, a civilization accumulates a vast social, material and intellectual capital

It starts to produce a certain falsified image of itself

And many philosophers of the past contemplated on the question, how to lubricate the engine, how to prevent deviations which were to them apparent

Currently, we have Western civilization which believes that it's material prosperity is the most important thing

And so it analyzes how to make this entirely wrong assumption, a matter of fact for everyone

So it makes another mistake, and assumes that such prosperity is a result of "discovering" a certain abstract form of government which allows it

And since its effort to export prosperity had failed, it now attempts to invite everybody over to show them how it works in person

Which everybody else uses and abuses cynically

If strenght, endurance, intelligence, fortitude, are the causes of prosperity, to the Western civilization, it will not occur that these are important things for example

It will only be obsessed with resulting state of affairs

So character virtues are the most important thing

@Jake Saga devolved said you were into sociopathy

what's up with that

I'm making my own attempts to understand this phenomenon

and have currently settled on one main point: sociopathy is an iceberg

and it's not just about visible/invisible but labelling as well

@༺པརབྱར།བསངཇ༻ You could say so

many people labelled as narcissists or borderline personalities are sociopathic

the main issue being complete inability to form a visceral loving connection with anyone

so the elite recognizes that these virtues are the most important thing

Yes, the elites certainly value character

is maarat a sociopath

The civilian world should be structured like the military

But i could add also the spirit, though that would expand the conversation

no @Horns , be serious, this is a serious thing, seriously

this should be your face: 😐