People cannot establish an order today that isn't based on the values that are *real* today

*Realistically* economic performance is what matters today. If for example we switched current system for some sort of let's say, statism, like Fascism for example

The greatest value would be loyalty to the state

Which is again, certainly better value than economic performance

But that value would condition everything else

why is it better

Let's say you wanted to create some sort of a 5 year plan, or some project to allocate resource

You would allocate them according to personal loyalty to the state, not merit

Or I guess why is loyalty to the state the most important thing

No, i dont think one-party state is the perfect solution, far from it

it's just better than plutocracy

whatever the state is

why is loyalty to it the most important thing

Of course, If we are not speaking of a dictatorship of the proletariat which is a whole different story

It allows for a dose of transcedence from a personal viewpoint

Which again dillutes individualism and to it immanent deviations

"It allows for a dose of transcedence from a personal viewpoint"

What does this mean to you

it could mean a few things

And it makes possible to create a new outlook which won't cater only to needs of trade and commercial growth, since power is established not in economical centers, but in centers of military, social authority

"What does this mean to you
it could mean a few things" Individual is more soberly aware that he isn't the most important thing, simply put

So the most important thing isn't the individual, it's the state?

Look

I don't think you understand

The state itself doesn't really matter

People can live without a state

In complete state of Anarchy

That's why I'm asking you pointed questions

but in such a state, "natural order" affirmst itself more easily and directly

Without asserting anything

However, since through many generations, a civilization accumulates a vast social, material and intellectual capital

It starts to produce a certain falsified image of itself

And many philosophers of the past contemplated on the question, how to lubricate the engine, how to prevent deviations which were to them apparent

Currently, we have Western civilization which believes that it's material prosperity is the most important thing

And so it analyzes how to make this entirely wrong assumption, a matter of fact for everyone

So it makes another mistake, and assumes that such prosperity is a result of "discovering" a certain abstract form of government which allows it

And since its effort to export prosperity had failed, it now attempts to invite everybody over to show them how it works in person

Which everybody else uses and abuses cynically

If strenght, endurance, intelligence, fortitude, are the causes of prosperity, to the Western civilization, it will not occur that these are important things for example

It will only be obsessed with resulting state of affairs

So character virtues are the most important thing

@Jake Saga devolved said you were into sociopathy