in general IQ stays static save brain injuries or malnurishment etc etc

till you are about 30, then it decreases

but if 20-50% is nurture, then the IQ of when they are an adult ends up not being helpful when trying to figure out the potential IQ range of their child

the differences become bigger the older you get, and people that excercise less, their IQ drops more

not true grenade

it is helpful

then it is not genetics

its partially genetics

unless that nurture is changing their genetics

between 50 and 80% of it is genetics

its not all or nothing

their child, not the end result

the base level IQ right when you can start measuring IQ, before nurture has any play in it

lmao https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/how-racist-would-you-be-if-black-people-could-actually-1824147771

oh from that perspective

🤔

that starting range, is only determined by genetics no?

genetics have a theoretical maximum unobtainable IQ

and then every action you do that deviates from the "perfect IQ path"

deminishes it slightly

technically all of this is "theoretical" until you can point to me the "IQ genes"

show me the genes is BS too

...

but lets not distract ourselves yet

so.... its in their DNA.... but its not their DNA?

certain actions deminish it more then others

eating lead paint chips will deminish a lot, not eating the required amount of vitamin C that one time in august 21th when you where 7 years old will do so a lot less

rich babies have less deminishing nurtures, but their theoretical (unobtainable) maximum IQ is still the same

question: Have these tests taken into account nurture starting from conception? I.E. mothers health? because twin studies are helpful, but without controlling for the mothers health habits there is a pretty important period of development in which nurture can very much affect the resulting baby before IQ tests can be measured.

mothers health effects both twins equally, unles you can prove me otherwise

yes... which means they can be damaged or improved equally.

potentially away

yes, but you can not use mothers health to explain a difference in IQ

as it effects both infants equally

you fail to understand the point

up until they are born, they are nurtured equally.

this may interest you https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/

post being born, ideally they are split up and sent to their adoptive families...

http://www.pnas.org/content/111/38/13790.full and this

correct, which is how you get the two different IQs. but the best for both of them is set during pregnancy.

a friend of mine is studying genetics

if you don't control for the mother, what happens when she does damage to the developing child.

or the environment does

not exactly, as soon as the genetic material is combined the theoretical maximum IQ could be calculated, asuming perfect knowledge

have they accounted for this?

you mean the adoptive mother?

not the genetic one?

no

accounted for the effect of environment on the development of the children while in the womb

i doubt alcohol and paint chips are good for the IQ of a developing fetus

it was the same environment, on the same genetics, before they have had a chance to experience different stimuli, so they are effectivly nurtured equally till birth

grenade they control for the mother

okay

if they are social scientists worth their salt they would control for anything they can afford to control for

that oversight is not lost on people whove dedicated 10+ years of their lives in order to come up with this kind of data

lets see, there was the thingy about "show me the gene"

regardless of wether or not you even know what genes are, you can predict something that functions like genes exist based on reproduction results

hold on, let me finish on my previous point before you pivot

aite sure

Cytos you still failed to see my point. So let me phrase it this way. Take 2 twin pregnancies. One of a higher IQ mother, and one of a Lower IQ mother, now, hypothetically, take these 2 pregnancies and run them through 2 different timelines. One in which both mothers receive the best healthcare throughout the pregnancy, one in which they both drink. If there is a genetic component, then in both of those tests, the higher should, on average, remain higher, and the lower remain lower.

all i asked was, have they attempted to prove that

well not literally as that would involve multi dimentional observation and we are not quitte there yet i am afraid

however, on average if you have 2 similar IQ mothers and one drinks while pregnant the baby will have a lower IQ then the one where the mother does not drink while pregnant, on average

assuming they drink the same amount if you compare 2 sets of 2 mothers with similar IQs

where set A has 100IQ both but one drinks
and set B has a 110IQ both, but one drinks

if you compare these enough times, and they drink the same amount, on average the baby with the 110IQ parent will be on top in both the non drinking IQ comparison, and the only drinking IQ comparison

on average

as fetal alcohol syndrome is pretty well established at this point

thanks ireland!

I wonder if there's an ideology that advocates for a high IQ ethnostate

yes

the IQnostate is a well estabished thought experiment amoungst the alt right

it would calculate a worthyness of entrance based on your current IQ and your estimated IQ offspring using the regression to the mean phenomenon

(regression to the mean means that even though you might be exceptional in a specific area, like for example IQ but not ONLY IQ, you will not guarantee pass that on to your child, as there is the other partners genes to consider)

high iq ethnostate is the most common behavural trait based ethnostate

this means that if for example a very tall person is more likely then a averagely tall person to have a taller child

but lets say he is exceptionally tall

the odds that his child is exceptionally tall too is higher, but much more likely it will be better then average, but not as exceptionally so

this is because you pass on and posses genes not expressed in you that might be expressed in your offspring, as well as your child not being your exact same genetic materia

unless you be clonin'

but even still then

genes express themselves differenly based on environment after all

which is partially why less empoverished children tend to have higher Iqs

personally i dont think inteligence is omniimportant

ofcourse it is not

but its defenetly in the top

like health is probably the most important

Well.

whoopteedo i have 300IQ oops i died cause of being sick oh well

There's no trait that guarantee sucess

You can be a paraplegic, and still be successful

on the other hand, growing up in a way that wont get you unable to reproduce is maybe more important then health

as you really only need to live till you make a baby

Or be a 50 IQ dumbass and still be a millionaire

he likely wont be for long though

but i get your point

a lot of people who avocate for ethnostates based on inteligence tend to argue that inteligence has a reverse coorilation with agression which they consiter to be a favorible trait though personally i find agression to be just as viable.

it depends on how you express your agression

Hell, Intelligence doesn't even guarantee being successful monetarily

Look at Chris langan

He may be the most intelligent man alive

But dude's just living on a farm

maybe he knows something you dont 😉

how useful inteligence is also depends on how you utilize it

Yeah

He's trying to prove god

Through Metaphysics

hmmm are you sure he is the most intelligent? IQ correlates with picking completable tasks too

he has an iq of 200 something

now, show me the gene

btw chris langan isint the only 200 iq person shiva

theres also a chinese guy though i dont remimber his name

you can breed cows to become bigger and tastier without even being able to read, let alone understand genes

QED middle ages farm stock breeding

If you guys are interested, check out chris' work

they understood that something that worked like genes existed, and applied it, without knowing what it is

It's known as the Cognitive Metaphysical model of the universe

its no timecube

im not denying knowing the exact genes wouldnt be advantagious btw, im just saying we dont need to know to know genes effect intelligence in a major way

also there is the simple fact that everything about us is gene expressed, and people that deny that need to prove somehow that the brain is an exception to that rule for some reason

rather then the "genes cause IQ" realists

He explained his theory here, if you guys are interested- https://www.quora.com/How-can-you-explain-CTMU-to-a-layman/answer/Chris-Langan-7

"there is greater variation within races then between" oof this ol' chestnut

But this guy also ate cat food apparently

for christmas

make no mistake it is correct, but that doesnt mean races dont exist

I have no problem with race realism

But

Every citizen must be given equal opportunity, Races shouldn't have societal influence

you can say the same about butterflies, but that does not mean there is only 1 species of butterfly

or cats

not dogs i suspect

and then you even have the most basic scientific principle

PREDICTIONS

I'm fine with saying Blacks have lower average IQ's. Only as long as this doesn't cause any difference in opportunities for black people

if you have someones DNA you can predict his race, hands down

no question about it

I'm not gonna call myself "race realist" though. It's a stupid term

also if you want to talk down to someone by applying a label, make sure the laber does not have the word realist in it

kidna implies something is real

its bad optics

for the anti race realists side at least

if you wanna talk down, call them a denier

Race denier

that implies the opposite of their beliefs though doesnt it

i mean they believe races are real, they arent denying race exists

race equality denier then 😉

that would work

a RED 😛

i have no problem with geneticists saying there are races, i.e. collections of genes that originated in certain areas. But if we want to compare that to the colloquial term that basically paints everyone from Europe and Russia as one race, people from a very small point in the middle east as another, everyone from Africa as another, and the rest of Asia as another (and everyone else as some combination of those, or just not worthy of being counted). You need to tell me that those random groupings are all on the same level of a hierarchy, and how much of that your DNA needs to have come from one of those groups to be considered a member of ONLY that group.

yes and no

social science often uses what coloqually is known as the races

whites, blacks, arabs, asians, natives etc etc

but you can defenetly fraction these groups more

its more like a heuristic then anything

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6153/6188470992_515c7294bf_b.jpg heres a more impressive balloon for you

its how out brains work, they could not work without them

my point is, these 2 ideas seem to be conflated

much like gender is the now the combination of gender roles and sex

which leads to problems

because you have groups cherry picking which definition to use, then treating it like the only definition to wage ideological war on people using the other definition.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/367350321657413635/467324727829200917/unknown.png

every group can be broken down into fractions of that group, and depending on the movement of said groups you get different genetic combinations that make up new groups

you can be a member of dozens of different races

are the Nordic countries technically lumped in with Europe? i feel like they are more similar to Russia that Europe it terms of geography but not

they likely are similar geneticly, except not exclusively

russians are slavs, nords are scandinavian

like vikings took english women

what about,

A person who's grand parents are
A Jewish white person, an African black person, A Muslim Arab person and an Asian person

So you have pretty much one of each race and "controversial" faith


What does this person count as? What + points would they get?

back with them

often

they actually have more relation to celts than slavs

so scandinavians tend to be more realated to the rest of europe than russia

the ethnostateists would make it pretty simple, you are not exclusive enough to a single race, ergo you are not allowed

jews aren't white, haven't you heard

a jewrabfricasian would likely wonder the world for a tribe in a globe with only ethnostates

Aussie isn't here Grenade! they be white people nao!! 😛

i'm appropriating the Jewish race into my toxic whiteness!

they would argue that a person like that is rare, and they would not be wrong though

most people that even say they are OK with race mixing, dont end up race mixing

well european jews have lived in europe for as long as christianity so id consiter european jews to be european

Are jews wypipo

and no, not all jews are white for starters

a jew and an African would have a crazy afro

Jeremy is pretty white

there are plenty of arab looking jews

He looks super white

even has the right nose

ashkanazi jews have been in europe for 1500 years

or the wrong nose

depending on how you look at it

He's good with money, so it's the best of both kinds lol

Are Moroccan Jews considered black?

They are African

depending on how deep you go

north africa isint black

But still African

most people would make the distinction, if it looks black its black

regardless if its jewish ancestry or not

they have closer ancestry with arabia than subsehara

hell even if there was some white and asian in there, they still woudlnt care

if it looks black its black

it it looks white its white

native australians arnt black

this is why russians are considered wypepo, even though they are genetically rather distinct from euros

I need to know how diverse my family is. So that I can rebuke being called a racist lmao

Hey goys

You said you can be a member of dozens of different races though so would this be one of those cases?

question

this is more or less my point that the colloquial term race isn't really anything backed by genetics outside of "you have the evil dark skin gene or bad nose gene! or weird squinty eye gene!"

are Russians white asians

le south park, my people got persecuted im a large part neandertal

Russians are mixed

both White Europeans, and Mongoloid Asians

like how filipinos are blasians

the whitest of Asians.

I would think that Eastern Russians have some Asian in them

Oh idk

Japanese are pretty white

except grenade, that you can take someones genes, and predict there "social race"

super white

as all that usually mattters for the uninformed masses is the skin colour

Russia is complicated because it was an empire essentially. Used to be many smaller states.

which is a result of genes

ive explained how i define race on a biological messure rather than an arbitrary one so i wont go into it again

boooriiiing, who needs genes! all you need is light reflection!

stab stab! 😛

jeans protect from stabs

tbh there are lots of differnet genetic groups within russia too

Russia has white diversity 😉

even current day russia has people like natives, except more cold and white

and more euro people

and more asian people

"its all considered on western norms"

its all considered on science, which is based on predictability

this is one step away of decolonializing science to make a shaman strike someone with lightning i swear

How can you ever explain that with "colonized" science? Checkmate

With a colonized gun!

if the shaman survives my bullet barrage by striking me with lightning first, he'll be right 😉

there is also the part where its bigotry of low expectations

you cant expect the africans to understand a picture assembly test

i mean, there africans

no, only europeans that designed the test can solve it.. and the asians somehow

even better then the europeans..

its almost like cultural testing differences are BS, if you have a non lingual test

you saying the tests are racist?!

Hey guys I need help also this is completely unrelated

So I bought a game, and when I launch it it's telling me the input signal is out of range

Tests are probably the most racist thing

What game?